[ExI] don't let your guard down, not for a minute...

[giovanni santostasi]

I agree that on the book communism is a far superior social organization than capitalism. Capitalism has exploitation as a key element by design. In a way the fact that many people enjoy a modest level of benefits from capitalistic society is 1) the result of non capitalistic forces achieving rights for the individual 2) a clever form of exploitation similar to the roman emperors slogan "give them bread and entertainment and the people would be submissive". It simply makes us better consumers to be given crumbles of the big pie so we happily exploited and manipulated.
Of course, so far any  real mass-scale communism experiment has failed mostly because has been hijacked by tyrannical figures that used communism as a cover up.
Communism is a very idealistic approach to society, that if maybe unpractical (at least given the level of development of humans at this point) shares a lot with the transhumanist ideal of life.
Star Treck fictional world is very close to a form of ideal communism. 
Giovanni


--- On Thu, 9/9/10, samantha <sjatkins at mac.com> wrote:

From: samantha <sjatkins at mac.com>
Subject: Re: [ExI] don't let your guard down, not for a minute...
To: "ExI chat list" <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
Date: Thursday, September 9, 2010, 5:14 PM



  

    
    
  On 9/9/10 6:55 AM, Tim Halterman wrote:
    

      
        
          
            Really, what do you
                  make of this?
             

            
          
        
        

          No current system is perfect and everlasting, communism,
          capitalism or otherwise.  
      
    
    

    Why? What makes them fail?  Are some better than others?  In what
    ways. 

    

    
      
        I don't think any system which requires people to do
          something they don't wish or relies on exploiting another
          being as a permanent solution.  
      
    
    Laissez faire capitalism requires neither.

    

    
      
        These systems are simply biding their time until technology
          advances to a point that a true communism is possible.
      
    
    BARF. Communism is utterly broken by design.   

    

    
      
           Communism in that sense being a society where
          individuals are free to do as they wish and do not require the
          exploitation of others to do so.  I think Marx felt this way,
          although specific quotes elude me (It's been a number of years
          since I read his work).

          

        
      
    
    That is not communism.  In communism the collective owns everything
    and the individual owns nothing.  "From each according to his
    ability, to each according to his needs" is a common slogan of
    communism at its most idealistic.   That is utterly unworkable. 
    When everyone owns everything and nothing no one has the right to do
    with anything at all what she wishes.  

    

    

    
      
        I always looked at the Soviet Union as simply picking a
          model close to a hopeful end-state.  Had technology progressed
          at a faster rate I'm not sure the collapse would have been
          inevitable, they could have simply evolved.  I see the most
          technologically advanced societies the closest to achieving
          true communism.

          

        
      
    
    A state that killed tens of millions on its own citizens on purpose
    is held up as an ideal and just before its time?  This is utterly
    abhorrent. 

    

    - samantha

    

  

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