[ExI] U.S. deeply imperiled due to it's massive debt

The Avantguardian avantguardian2020 at yahoo.com
Tue Sep 28 10:42:35 UTC 2010

----- Original Message ----
> From: John Grigg <possiblepaths2050 at gmail.com>
> To: rafal at smigrodzki.org; ExI chat list <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
> Sent: Mon, September 27, 2010 7:00:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [ExI] U.S. deeply imperiled due to it's massive debt

> Rafal wrote:
> ###  You seem to imply that corporations are doing wrong by
> influencing elections, yet your own influence in this matter is
> benign.

No politics is benign, Rafal. Politics is all about violence; hidden behind 
niceties and ritual though it may be. To deprive a man of his life or to deprive 
a man of an hour of his time is a distinction of quantity and not of quality. 
Politics is therefore all about who gets to feed off of the work of another. 
That being said, my sense of fairness is less outraged if my work should benefit 
all indiscriminantly than a select handful not of my choosing. Likewise, when my 
turn comes to feed, I would rather draw energy from the vast collective, than 
single out a hapless victim to sate my hunger. This is the harsh economics of 

> John Wrote:
> I am saying corporations have been allowed far to much permission to
> influence elections with their financial muscle.

Yes. The whole point of their influencing elections and lobbying for legislation 
is to use the government to either get pork or shield themselves from 
competition. How anybody can be complicit in their actions and call themselves a 
free market capitalist is beyond me. 

> Rafal wrote:
> I would say that peremptorily demanding a voice in other
> people's lives (which is what elections amount to) is just immoral,
> and by participating in elections you are making yourself as
> blameworthy as whoever purchased TARP from Obama and Bush.

To speak of morality and politics in the same breath is misguided on several 
levels. Politics is based in violence and so whose morals would you judge it by? 
Don't forget the Taliban think elections are immoral too.
John wrote:

> I would say you sound like an anarcho-libertarian!

Anarcho-libertarianism may work well in a country of saints or lobotomy patients 
but it hasn't worked out too well in Somalia. Ethiopia is a flat out communist 
dictatorship and it has a higher standard of living.
> Rafal wrote;

> ### Whenever the government of the people and by the people ever
> threatens to break out, prudent humans pack up and go elsewhere until
> the madness blows over.
> >>>

To quote Winston Churchill, "Democracy is the worst form of government except 
for all the others that have been tried." My mind is open to change and 
personally, I love novelty. If you have something else workable in mind, Rafal, 
feel free to expound upon it. 

> John wrote:

> The American Revolution was one to stick around for and support, but
> the French Revolution was a good excuse to pack up and leave town...

But if you leave town, you forfeit your chance to be Napoleon. ;-) 

Stuart LaForge
"Old men read the lesson in the setting sun.
Beat the cymbal and sing in this life, or wail away the hours fearing death.
Their choice is their fortune." - I Ching 


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