[ExI] Status as human motivator

Keith Henson hkeithhenson at gmail.com
Wed Apr 27 06:15:46 UTC 2011

On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 10:56 PM, Olga Bourlin <olga.bourlin at gmail.com> wrote:
> Mike, I was being sarcastic, you know?  I don't believe in "free
> passes," especially not the ones written by the largely "pale and
> male" crowd

I have not met more than a few, I think only 3 of the current posters.
 You could not get me to even say what species they are for sure.  Do
you know they are "pale and male"?  Or could some of the be of
intermediate gender, dark green and lots of tentacles?  Or AIs
hopelessly trapped in 386 computers running under MS DOS 5.0?

> among the Extropian libertarians here.  How accommodating
> not to have to discuss real-world issues

I happen to be rather up on a lot of "real-world" issues.  Have you
ever butchered a hog?  Heated a house with wood?  Testified before
Congress?  Put a cryonics patient on cardiac bypass?

> by passing them off as
> irrelevant now due to alleged immateriality in the future.  How
> special:
> "Racial and ethnic prejudice is notably uncommon [among hackers] and
> tends to be met with freezing contempt."

Do you recognize where this comes from or how old it is?


> On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 10:43 PM, F. C. Moulton <moulton at moulton.com> wrote:
>> Concerning racism
>> On 04/26/2011 09:24 PM, Olga Bourlin wrote:
>>> But, hey, here everybody gets a free pass.
>> Allow me to disagree.  I do not think that anyone should get a free pass
>> on issues of race, gender, etc.  I was actually considering how to
>> structure a reply on the topic of race but got distracted by a small
>> leak in my sink (now fixed) and the other intrusions of life.
>> Talking about race or gender or similar matters is not easy particularly
>> if we each have different conceptual frameworks and different
>> backgrounds.   Further we have different modes of discourse when
>> discussing certain topics.  Plus there is the problem of how we
>> consciously perceive the actions of ourselves and our social group and
>> the unconscious and unobserved actions.  I am not accusing anyone of any
>> thing and I am not excusing anyone of anything.  I am just urging us to
>> be careful in our communications so that we do not express things which
>> we later regret.
>> One the things that I have come to realize over the past couple of years
>> is that there is a vocabulary about race and gender as well as
>> conceptual framework which is common in some circles but is not common
>> in the tech and most other circles that I frequent.  While I do not
>> agree in all aspects with the framework I have found it instructive to
>> at least be aware of it and to be at least minimally conversant in that
>> framework when someone else is using it to discuss a situation.  Just as
>> it is useful to have a basic understanding of economics, physics,
>> chemistry, philosophy and computers to follow many of the discussions we
>> have here.
>> To get a brief idea of the kind of thing I am referring to I suggest the
>> following as a starter:
>> http://www.nymbp.org/reference/WhitePrivilege.pdf
>> I am not endorsing it whole heartedly but I think it is a reasonably
>> short starting piece for those who are interested.  It was written in
>> the late 1980s so it is over 20 years old and thus might be a bit
>> dated.  But I do recommend it as a starting piece.  I expect that some
>> will read and say what rubbish and reject it out of hand as a personal
>> insult.   As I said above I am not saying it is totally correct; what I
>> am saying is that by reading the document it might be easier to
>> communicate on this topic with people who have that view point since
>> there will be greater familiarity with the viewpoint.  Of course this
>> will lead to meta-level discussions but at least it will be easier to
>> find the points of agreement and disagreement.
>> I suspect that Olga and Keith are really not as much in disagreement as
>> it might seem rather I suspect that it is a difference of focus and a
>> difference in modes of expression as well as a sincere difference of
>> perception of our daily situation.
>> Sorry about how long this message turned out.  I was trying without
>> success to keep it short.
>> Fred
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