[ExI] How do we construct workable institutions and ethical behaviors?

[spike]

>...On Behalf Of Jeff Davis
Subject: Re: [ExI] How do we construct workable institutions and ethical
behaviors?

On Sun, Dec 11, 2011 at 8:37 AM, spike <spike66 at att.net> wrote:

>> Jeff, this is a perfect example of what I was referring to in the 
>> earlier post.  The banks redlining wasn't about racism.  It was about
risk control.

>...Not buying it, Spike.  Risk control based on racism is offensive and not
to be tolerated...

Jeff this assumes guilt instead of making any attempt to prove guilt.  If it
worked this way, we would not need courts or legal experts.  Guilt would
always be assumed, and counter evidence would be useless.  I agree risk
control based on racism is offensive.  My point is that risk control was
(and is) done on the basis of the location of the property.  From the
location, they can get local crime statistics, estimate risks of the
borrower being slain or the property burning down, the risk of the property
being seized as a meth lab, for instance.  None of that has anything to do
with race in any way, for there is no known correlation between race and any
of these factors.

>...  When the banking industry red-lined a district, they broad-brushed
everyone living there and denied them access to services...

Agree.

>... on a racial basis...

Disagree.  Evidence?  The redlining was based on location of the property.
This seems legitimate to me.  East Palo Alto was an unincorporated area with
very little law enforcement, and that which they had was deeply corrupt.  It
was a very dangerous area, absolutely regardless of one's race.  Investment
in that area was risky, regardless of the race of the borrower.  I wouldn't
do it.

>...Full disclosure:  I'm a racist.  No apologies.  I have zero use for the
American black ghetto culture.  Sure, they came from slaves...

How do we know that?  Do we continue to assume for all time that African
Americans are descended from slaves?  What if they didn't?  And what if
non-African people did descend from slaves?  Remember we had race-based
slavery as late as 1945, in Germany.  There may even be some former slaves
living today.  I personally knew two of them back in the 1980s.  They had
numbers tattooed on their arms.

>...and have had a rough time...

How do we know that?  Do we assume all African Americans have had a rough
time?  For how long?

 >... They have all manner of thoroughly valid explanations about how they
got where they are.  But that's no excuse.
 Time for them to get over it, and get on with making something of
themselves.  Everyone's got their problems.  Best, Jeff

Actually Jeff we are talking past each other.  The focus of the discussion
is on whether or not it is legitimate for banks to loan or not loan based on
the location of the property.  To me that is perfectly valid.  It isn't
valid to loan or not loan based on race.  It is not legitimate for one who
was denied a loan to assume it was based on race, when far more likely it
was based on zip code.  If I were a banker, that's sure as hell what I would
be looking for: the location of the property and any possible flaws that
would make it hard to sell if it lands in my lap.

spike