[ExI] General comment about all this quasi-libertarianism discussion

Eugen Leitl eugen at leitl.org
Sat Feb 26 20:50:58 UTC 2011

On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 12:43:46PM -0500, Richard Loosemore wrote:
> Since this list is now *saturated* with political speculation (not to  
> mention the occasional bit of hyperbolic ranting and liberal use - er  
> sorry, I mean ;-) libertarian use - of the term "BS"), I am going to  
> take this opportunity to try a smackdown, using a weapon that other  
> people LOVE to use against anyone who presents ideas about AGI on this 
> list.
> Which is to say:  if you think these libertarian/anarchist proposals are  
> so great, WHERE IS THE CODE?

Right, for them to work you need to patch the human primate.

> I mean that literally.  Where are your system simulations, which show  
> that society will remain stable when, for example, most government  

Relevant aspects of human societies cannot yet be modelled effectively.

> funded institutions are abolished?  Where are your simulations -- your  
> detailed, supercomputer-sized models, containing large numbers of  
> realistic constraints -- of how economic systems will be able to  
> function normally when the Federal Reserve is abolished and currency is  
> replaced by, e.g., Joule-Credits?

Energy as currency backing is not useful, because it gets consumed
in the process. However, it would make sense to tie currency value
to a basket of raw resources, with periodically adjustable composition
and coefficients, which have to be however resistant to gaming.

It would be a return to metal-backed/non-fiats, but without the
disadvantages. Since we've been there, and we know the system is
currently poorly managed the risk would be probably low.

> As I explained in a previous (widely ignored) post, most people on this  
> planet have a pretty good understanding of the fact that these kinds of  
> libertarian/anarchist ideas might sound good to some people, in theory,  
> but they would actually lead to a degeneration of civilized human  
> society.  If people here claim that these ideas would NOT lead to such a  

Yes, you have to fix the agent. Current agent's won't do.

> degeneration, PROVE IT.  The majority of humanity has a strong intuition  
> that the consequences would be disastrous, so give us some EVIDENCE that  
> our intuitions are mistaken by showing us actual, believable simulations  
> of human society.
> All I hear at the moment is empty philosophizing and BS :-).

I agree.

Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org
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