[ExI] Capitalism, anti capitalism, emotional arousal

Giovanni Santostasi gsantostasi at gmail.com
Fri Nov 11 22:54:35 UTC 2011


Yeah,
Socialism is what Soviet Union and China didn't ever have.
Stop with the praises of capitalism and some ghost capitalism that never
existed.
Capitalism real or ghostly is unsustainable. Maybe it had a purpose to
reach certain goal (industrial revolution) but we need to find better ways
to organize sentient beings on this planet.
All what you have to do to understand capitalism is to read Marx, it is
very well explained in his work why it sucks for the majority of us.
Giovanni


2011/11/11 Samantha Atkins <sjatkins at mac.com>

> There are far too many people jumping on the anti-captialism bandwagon
> with no real understanding of what capitalism is or what is at stake.  When
> I see a group claiming it is defining itself by doing the same thing with
> no real evidence of understanding either then it is too bad for that group.
>
> Capitalism in its true form is very much freedom in the sphere of
> economics.  Freedom to produce what you choose and trade it for whatever
> you can reach a mutually acceptable agreement on.  The rest is definition
> by inessentials or merely what one has been conditioned to associate with
> capitalism whether it has anything particularly to do with capitalism or
> not.  A system where the government has very large favors to sell to
> business is not capitalism or a result of capitalism.  It is a result of
> runaway government and of allowing massive government involvement in the
> economy.   Nor does capitalism of necessity lead to such bromides and the
> "rich get richer and the poor get poorer".  Historically actual capitalism
> has resulted in unprecedented gains to the poor as well as the rich.
>
> Capitalism is precisely what we have not had in the US, not actual free
> markets and economy, for a very long time.  So to blame Capitalism is
> enough to make my blood boil.
>
> - samantha
> On Nov 10, 2011, at 4:03 AM, Henry Rivera wrote:
>
> Wow! How interesting it is to see everyone get all worked up about Zero
> State's development of an ideology, which I might add is still a work in
> progress. My view is that capitalism is a means to an end which will become
> obsolete after a certain tipping point. There is nothing anyone can do
> about that, so in this sense Zero State is just ahead of the curve in
> explicitly welcoming this. An attempt to show that a political system can
> function without capitalistic values is worthwhile. "Unfettered capitalism"
> could improve things in the interim but will eventually become obsolete
> politically as well. The target of current contempt as I see it is
> systematic oppression of millions of people facilitated by capitalism as it
> currently exists driven by greed. Consider the data released this week in
> the US indicating 16% or 49 million people in the US live below or near the
> poverty line, which is $22,000USD for a family of four. Can anyone really
> defend that in this modern age particu!
> larly in a first world country? On the other hand, people working within
> the current system will argue their accumulation of wealth is fair game;
> they are playing by the rules (which they helped to create I might add,
> which is the nature of oppression and built into the system in the US where
> there is little to limit financial influence of legislators by the wealthy
> relative to Europe for example). Zero State is taking the position that the
> logical solution is a new system that doesn't facilitate the rich getting
> richer by rewarding greed and oppression. Anyone who read Amon's whole
> statement will see this is not an anti free trade position. It's more about
> the activity of free trade as it functions in our current political system.
> Calling that anti-capitalist certainly pushed some buttons and will likely
> change based on recent discussion. As I said the development of this new
> ideology is a work in progress. Contribute. It's your future too. If the
> direction of Zero State i!
> s not your cup of tea, propose and implement your own solutions to
> compete. Complacency and tolerance of oppression is despicable to me.
> -Henry
>
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