[ExI] millionaires and billionaires

[Dennis May]

Large up front expenses, high operating and maintenance costs, short life cycle,
and/or reduced availability [lower standard of living] is why DIY energy has only
worked in niche markets.  Not every household is going to have an engineer
and maintenance man available to take care of such systems.  If DIY energy
becomes available through the free market that's fine.  If it requires continual
taxpayer input it is nothing but a wealth redistribution program in disguise.
 
I have done small DIY home energy projects - 12 volt lighting, LED lighting,
wood heat, wood heated hot water, minor wind mill experiments, and a few
local water wells.  DIY will not work for the vast majority of people - diverting
resources assuming it will - will only lead to major economic disruptions and
severe lowering of the standard of living for many.  There is a reason why
central power and water distribution occurred.  A local cemetary [Cox] has
a number of childen buried who died from well water contamination issues.
Local and DIY was my father's generation here in NE Missouri and they
had a very low standard of living compared to now.
 
Dennis May

From: "artillo at gmail.com" <artillo at gmail.com>
To: ExI chat list <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 7:59 AM
Subject: Re: [ExI] millionaires and billionaires

BillK said: 
"DIY energy supplies and zero footprint living is the way to go for the general population. But it probably means a big drop in living standards."

I agree we do need to go towards DIY energy but I don't think it will mean a big drop in living standards. I think if it is done properly it will actually mean a huge improvement in a good portion of the population's living standards, especially the extremely poor. Not having to worry about paying the electric bill vs. buying food for your children in the dead of Winter would be a basic example of this.

The question then becomes, HOW do we get people on board with this idea? How can it be implemented in such a way as to produce a change in mentality from the way previous generations did it? The first answer that comes to my mind is to show them proven example after proven example and spread the word as best we can with all means available to us. 

Let's face it, the vast majority of the population is hopelessly ignorant and too lazy to look things up for themselves, so it will initially have to be spoon-fed to them until they develop a taste for it. Look how long it took us to even start the "green" movement (which has origins back to at least the 60's!).

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: BillK <pharos at gmail.com>
Sender: extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.orgDate: Sat, 17 Sep 2011 10:06:54 
To: ExI chat list<extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
Reply-To: ExI chat list <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
Subject: Re: [ExI] millionaires and billionaires

2011/9/17 Dennis May wrote:
> You meet millionaires all the time and likely don't know it.
> I can't say I've ever met a billionaire.  I think the extent of the
> rich I've ever been around is in the under 50 million range.
> Most millionaires are not cocky about their money.  Most
> people who act cocky about money are immature and
> likely wannabes in debt.
>


Agreed. Millionaires are not considered really rich these days.
Especially if you include property and pension funds and other assets
not readily available for spending. And yes, most ordinary
millionaires are just like the people next door. (Us ordinary
millionaires must stick together, after all).  ;)

I was referring to people whose annual *income* is in the billions,
never mind their total assets. These people don't even think about the
cost of something. They just do it, because price doesn't matter to
them. And these people own and run companies who also work on their
behalf. They don't even need to use their own money when a company can
hire lawyers and mercenaries to do their bidding. But to maintain this
lifestyle, they end up doing what benefits the corporation as well as
themselves, rather than looking at what the longer term future
demands. This has led to the current economic problems. Which is still
working to benefit the companies that caused the problems.
(But I suppose there must be some nice guys in there as well. All
generalisations have exceptions. Not all lawyers or parking officials
are totally evil).

But even the coal and oil corporations are slowly diversifying into
renewable resources. The problem that society has is that they are
deliberately diversifying slowly, so as to extract the maximum profit
from dwindling resources. And as the oil price increases, that means
that high price expectations mean that they can charge more for the
renewable energy replacements that they will provide.  Energy will
still be available. It will just be very expensive when coming from
the grid. (Not a problem for the super-rich, of course).

DIY energy supplies and zero footprint living is the way to go for the
general population. But it probably means a big drop in living
standards.


BillK

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