[ExI] Bringing new life to dead matter

Will Steinberg steinberg.will at gmail.com
Thu May 31 18:29:07 UTC 2012

Kelly, I just think if you're willing to go as far as sea stars having
*some* consciousness then I don't think it's so hard to give plants, say, a
millionth of that.  If a brain is just the epitome of the entity-like
organizational center, could not plants' simpler informational organization
give them consciousness?

Yes indeed the argument seems unwinnable for now.  And I will admit I have
been blowing off nervous systems so far--they are definitely the centers of
the most consciousness I have observed around be.  I only ask that,
perhaps, in the life of a tree, a forest, of the genetic evolution of all
plant life, or in the cyclical transcription needed to send to right
signals to open and close the flower, the stoma...that perhaps somewhere in
this great chorus, on some time scale, there is a brief blinking iotum of

On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 2:45 AM, Kelly Anderson <kellycoinguy at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Stefano Vaj <stefano.vaj at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > On 28 May 2012 19:43, Kelly Anderson <kellycoinguy at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I think I draw the line at the beings that have some kind of central
> >> nervous system and those that don't. I do not believe that amoebas
> >> have anything approaching consciousness. Dogs, cats, yes. Maybe even
> >> sea stars. And then you are at a quantitative difference, a huge one
> >> to be sure... but without a brain, I don't know how you could claim
> >> it.
> >
> > This sounds quite... kingdomist. Because it automatically discriminates
> all
> > kinds of plants.
> Maybe so. But I don't know of any plants that I would describe as
> conscious either. Sorry.
> There's probably something out there (if not today then in the future)
> that has so much consciousness that they would consider us to not be
> conscious... I suppose... but this argument isn't winnable, because
> it's all conjecture and opinion anyway, isn't it?
> -Kelly
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