[ExI] satanist ethics, was: names in subject lines... was: something else before that
spike66 at att.net
Wed Oct 31 19:05:52 UTC 2012
From: extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org
[mailto:extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org] On Behalf Of Stefano Vaj
Subject: Re: [ExI] Bruce Klein
On 30 October 2012 19:43, Giovanni Santostasi <gsantostasi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>. se (often people point to some transhumanists connections with satanist
organizations), while we see ourselves as the heralds of a better world (not
just from a material point of view but also cognitive, moral and spiritual).
>.Hey, even in satanist organisations theft or embezzlement of
organisational funds is best avoided, be it just for obvious practical
>.Guessing that mitigating circumstances may exist depending on personal
knowledge of the perpetrator certainly does not imply that one should
condone such conducts. -- Stefano Vaj
This is a good example of what I was whining about yesterday. We have a
case where this discussion could easily go off on an extended discussion of
ethics among atheist and Satanist organizations, or any of a dozen ideas
Stefano's comment gives me. But we would have it all under the subject
label of Bruce Klein.
>.Hey, even in satanist organisations.
I can speak for myself on this only, but after I came out of fundamentalist
Christianity, to agnosticism and eventually atheism (with a lower case a) I
found myself walking ever more circumspectly than before, rather than less.
There were a few things that were no longer sins, blasphemy for instance.
But most of the ethical framework stays in place. We atheists can even
continue to call wrongdoing sins if we wish, and if we don't worry about the
religious connotation of the term. For instance, even after religion is
gone, lying and theft are still sins, cheating on your spouse is still a
sin. Rather, these are still sins in my book, and I am as flaming atheist
as anyone. (Hey cool, lets have a contest to see who is the most sincere
Religion goes, ethical sensibility stays. Being a mean evil bastard is
still a sin. Killing is still a sin definitely. The difference now is I no
longer have the option of getting down on my knees and talking to the
ceiling, asking some imaginary supernatural Santa Clause to forgive me. I
must carry my own sins on my own back, all the way to the edge of the dewar,
and that sack of sins can be heavy indeed.
My point: atheism has its costs. It has benefits to go with it, and these
benefits outweigh the costs. I think atheism is the truth, and I love
truth. I love all true things, even if the truth is not loveable. Truth
outranks happiness. Truth has evidence and reason. I like evidence,
evidence is my friend. Reason is my friend. Even if I acknowledge that I
was happier as a religious guy, I do not go back, for I love true things.
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