[ExI] 23andme again

spike spike at rainier66.com
Thu Jun 27 17:43:15 UTC 2013


At least until you read this post please, all the way to the bottom, or if
you are in a hurry, read only the last sentence which pretty much sums up
the rest of it.

>... On Behalf Of BillK
Subject: Re: [ExI] 23andme again

On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 4:07 PM, spike wrote:
>>... I don't know what happens in those long-cold cases where the contact
> occurred at a party, no commitments were made, the mother had several 
> similar-looking partners, so no one paid child support, then many 
> years later it becomes possible to determine which is the bio-father.
> Can the offspring now sue retroactively for 18 yrs of child support?  
> This is legally unfamiliar territory.

>...Being the USA, probably the laws are different from state to state.  

>...But generally, if there was no child support order made when the child
was a minor then after 18 years old, it's too late...

Thanks BillK.  After I read your reply, it occurred to me that it wouldn't
need to be 18 yrs later.  To get DNA read, all it takes is a few cc of spit.
Anyone could do this on a baby; even a babysitting grandmother could collect
the sample without anyone knowing, since baby slobber is in plentiful
supply.  23andMe doesn't know whose spit they are analyzing or who sent it.
They do what software does: takes the sample, does the analysis, dumps the
results onto a website where you have the option of revealing your identity
or not.  Only about a third of the users reveal their identity, and even
then, you are not required to use the right one. 

>...The father cannot be liable for unpaid child support if no order was
made and the child is now an adult...

Ja, but what if the child is a newborn?  With 18 yrs of potential child
payments ahead of the bio-father?  See the first line in this post please.

>...Yes, I was afraid that at first you were only looking at the situation
from the POV of problem-solving to help the young lady. There are three
people involved, father, mother and child, all with rights to be

Ja.  I have been working to master the software tools in 23andMe.  It
occurred to me that ANYONE could have done what I did.  Once they get some
skills with the many ancestry tools available, they don't need to be a
genetic relative to figure out what I found.  It helped to verify, since I
had a huge clue, that the relationship to her had to be through her
bio-father, and he has an oddball name.  Later I found she was born in a
very small town in a state where abortions are damn near impossible to get,
so the puzzle pieces began to fall together easily.

The lesson here is that if one copulates carelessly, there is a new threat.
It used to be just herpes and AIDS.  But now we have a  SERIOUS threat, such
as the sleazy sorority girl at that party has a mother who can figure out
which of the frat brothers impregnated her drunken daughter, and she wants
payments on that baby to begin forthwith.

>...But the transparent society is approaching fast and laws and society 
>will have to try and adjust.  BillK

BillK, I made a table of my 100 closest genetic matches.  The first column
indicates male or female, the second column indicates relationship.  2-4
means second thru fourth cousin.  All 100 are cousins.  I used the code id
to indicate if there is any identification, including just a first name.
Reasoning: many of the women use their maiden names in this activity, even
if they are happily married.  Some of the participants think they are
anonymizing themselves but are not.  For instance, one guy nicknamed himself
by what looked like three initials and a city name, for instance a nickname
in the form of ejtashville (intentionally obfuscated.)  He may have thought
he was anonymous with that handle (which I obfuscated, it isn't really
ejtashville).  I googled on "ejtashville," found a guy with initials ejt
from Ashville who mentions 23andMe on his otherwise uninformative facebook
page.  That took me less than 10 seconds to find him, along a photograph,
with the names of his family members.  I have half a mind to contact the guy
and tell him if he wants to be anonymous, work harder at it. 

Note that 35 of the top 100 provided some form of ID.  The other 2/3 gave
nothing at all.  You can contact them thru 23-mail, but you don't know who
they are or anything about them.  If they choose, they might communicate
back with you thru 23-mail, but as far as I can tell, this is a rare form of
secure communications from the outside world point of view.  There is no way
to trace it back to an individual person that I can see.  23andMe needs to
know some kind of email @ to contact you when your results are ready, but
you can set up a gmail account and use it only for that, or set up a
bulletin board anonymously if you wish.  23andMe has no way of knowing who
you are, even though they know the contents of your DNA and who you are
related to.

Note that 24 of the men provided some form of ID, as did 11 of the women.
65 provided no ID and no means of contacting other than thru 23-mail:

1	m	2-4	
2	m	2-4	
3	f	3-4	id
4	f	3-4	id
5	m	3-4	
6	f	3-4	
7	f	3-4	
8	m	3-4	
9	f	3-4	
10	f	3-4	
11	f	3-5	id
12	f	3-5	id
13	f	3-5	
14	m	3-5	id
15	f	3-5	id
16	m	3-5	id
17	f	3-5	
18	m	3-5	id
19	f	3-5	
20	f	3-5	
21	m	3-5	id
22	m	3-5	id
23	m	3-5	
24	m	3-5	
25	m	3-5	id
26	m	3-5	
27	m	3-5	
28	f	3-5	id
29	m	3-5	
30	f	3-5	
31	m	3-5	id
32	m	3-5	id
33	f	3-5	
34	f	3-5	
35	m	3-5	id
36	f	3-5	
37	f	3-5	
38	f	3-5	id
39	m	3-5	id
40	f	3-5	
41	m	3-5	id
42	m	3-5	
43	f	3-6	
44	m	3-6	id
45	m	3-6	
46	m	3-6	
47	m	3-6	id
48	m	3-6	
49	f	3-6	
50	f	3-6	
51	m	3-6	id
52	m	3-6	
53	m	3-6	
54	m	3-6	
55	f	3-6	
56	f	3-6	
57	f	3-6	
58	m	3-6	
59	f	3-6	
60	m	3-6	id
61	m	3-6	
62	f	3-6	
63	f	3-6	
64	f	3-6	
65	m	3-6	id
66	m	3-6	id
67	m	3-6	id
68	m	3-6	id
69	m	3-6	
70	f	3-6	id
71	m	3-6	id
72	f	3-6	id
73	m	3-6	
74	f	3-6	
75	f	3-6	
76	f	3-6	
77	f	3-6	
78	m	3-6	id
79	m	3-6	
80	f	3-6	
81	m	3-6	
82	m	3-6	
83	f	3-6	
84	m	3-6	id
85	m	3-6	
86	f	3-6	
87	m	3-6	
88	f	3-6	
89	m	3-6	id
90	m	3-6	id
91	m	3-6	
92	m	3-6	
93	m	3-6	
94	f	3-6	
95	f	3-6	
96	f	3-6	id
97	m	3-6	
98	f	3-6	id
99	m	3-6	
100	m	3-6

I have contacted about a dozen or so of my closest relatives and a few more
down lower on the list whose family names match those I know from my own
genealogy.  I get replies from about half.  Some of those on this list might
be babies, but not mine I can assure you.

If anyone here gets anything out of this post, it is that our hiding places
are becoming as transparent as glass.  Take heed if you are engaging in
careless copulation: if your partner becomes impregnated by you, she can now
find you easily enough if any of your even distant cousins have done
23andMe.  Over 300k-proles have done 23andME, and the number grows by
several hundred a day.  I have 993 people on my DNA match list.  Guys, see
the first line of this post please.  Otherwise take careful precautions,
especially if you are on some wild fling in Vegas or on spring break in
Daytona where you think no one knows you.  This is your good old Uncle Spike
talking here guys, and I am giving you some critically important advice.  I
mean it.

Parting shot: I pondered BillK's comment and I still think the same as
before.  If you sire a pup, I feel as though that offspring's right to know
who you are outweighs your right to hide.  I will not reveal you
intentionally, but your DNA will, even if it was a distant cousin who sent
DNA to 23.  Pay attention and walk circumspectly please.



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