[ExI] Warren Buffett is worried too and thinks Republicans are "asinine"

[david]

On Tue, 5 Nov 2013 07:04:20 -0800
"spike" <spike66 at att.net> wrote:

> -----Original Message-----
> >... On Behalf Of david
> 
> "spike" <spike66 at att.net> wrote:
> 
> >> ... the ACA clearly specifically forbids the IRS from enforcing the
> penalties.  They are 
> > free to DEMAND payment, they can even send a bill. They just can't
do > > anything if the taxpayer just says no... spike
>   
> >...Is there anything to stop the IRS simply applying whatever taxes
or > with-holding that you have paid, to the opt-out tax first, then
coming after > you boots and all for the "unpaid" income tax? 
> 
> -David
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Sure, they can keep the refund you would have gotten.  But if you do
your > withholdings right, you shouldn't have a refund coming anyway.
Or if so, it > should be very small.  Here's the text:
> 
> ''(A) WAIVER OF CRIMINAL PENALTIES.-In the case of
> any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed
> by this section, such taxpayer shall not be subject to any
> criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure.
> ''(B) LIMITATIONS ON LIENS AND LEVIES.-The Secretary
> shall not-
> ''(i) file notice of lien with respect to any property
> of a taxpayer by reason of any failure to pay the
> penalty imposed by this section, or
> ''(ii) levy on any such property with respect to
> such failure.''.
> 
> So here's the interesting part.  Do they differentiate the normal
income tax > bill from that which is levied for not having health
insurance?  I would > think they would need to keep those two bills
separate, since the IRS has > the authority to collect ordinary taxes,
but does not have the authority to > assess penalties for refusing this
one.  So if they mix the two into one > bill, it might add the threat
of criminal sanction for not paying the > opt-out tax (specifically
prohibited by law) or it might cause the IRS to > lose its power over
collecting the income tax (which has some enormous > consequences in
itself.) > 
> There are a number of waivers available for the opt-out tax: one of
the > major religions often found in places such as Saudi Arabia is
exempt, since > insurance is gambling.  Presumably anyone who converts
to that religion now > is as exempt as the others.  Native Americans
are exempt even though you can > buy a membership into some Native
American tribes without the actual > relationship, or just claim it, as
in the case of Elizabeth Warren.  You can > be a union or a big
corporation, with the term "big" defined by how "big" is > the campaign
donation you offer. > 
> You can be sure the IRS can and will keep your refund if you have one
> coming, but if you do, that is a bookkeeping error on your part.  To
answer > your question, can they come boots and all.  Yes to boots, not
to all. > Boots but not criminal sanctions, boots but not liens against
your property > or levies against your bank accounts.  OK so what
happens when the mighty > much-feared IRS shows up boots and that's
all?  The taxpayers now tweak them > with "I invoke the fifth
amendment" or say "Hey nice boots.  Boots are made > for walking.  Now
hit the road." > 
> The IRS cannot do its job without a serious threat behind it.  That
waiver > removed the fist from the glove.
> 
> spike
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Yes to "they will keep your refund", but that's not exactly what I
meant. If you have any tax liability at all they can collect.

For example assume your income tax should be $1000 and your opt out
tax $500.

You adjust your with-holding to be exactly $1000.

The IRS says "You have paid your $500 opt out tax and $500 of
your income tax.  Now pay the other $500 under threat of
income tax collection penalties."

The only people immune to this are those who have absolutely no other
tax liability than the opt-out tax.

-David.