[ExI] kepler study says 8.8e9 earthlike planets

[Kelly Anderson]

On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 9:49 AM, John Clark <johnkclark at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 3:24 AM, Kelly Anderson <kellycoinguy at gmail.com>wrote:
>
> > While it is possible to evolve very good tentacles underwater, nothing
>> like hands has evolved underwater. Part of the problem is that water tends
>> to evolve creatures that are streamlined. Hands, are clearly not very
>> streamlined. Could tentacles lead to intelligence? Perhaps. But without
>> high rates of speciation, it would take much longer in the ocean than on
>> land.
>>
>
> I think it would be almost impossible for sea creatures, however smart
> they were, to develop technology. The laws of Newtonian Physics were hard
> enough to discover for humans who lived in a atmosphere not in a vacuum,
> but it would be astronomically harder under water; there things NEVER move
> at the same speed unless a force is constantly applied, and intelligent
> fish wouldn't have the motions of the stars and planets to help them figure
> out basic physics. Even humans would never have discovered Quantum
> Mechanics if they hadn't figured out a way to make a vacuum first.  And
> intelligent fish would lack one of the first and most important inventions,
> fire.
>

While fire is important to land animals, what makes it important is that it
is terrestrial.

Of greater importance to this discussion might be the invention of writing.

Imagine that cephalopods had another billion years of evolution without the
interference of land returning to water animals... and they got enough
intelligence that they could invent writing. It would be far more difficult
to find an alternative to clay tablets or papyrus underwater. And what
would you write with.

Also, mining would be terribly difficult underwater, and especially in the
very deep water worlds. How would they be able to pass through the bronze
and iron ages in such a world?

While I have no problem seeing life and even intelligent life evolve in the
ocean eventually, the rise of technology in a water world seems far more
difficult. Of course this might just be because I have a lack of an
imagination. Intelligent creatures might figure out how to do it. But if
you live in a world covered with 7 to 70 miles of water everywhere, with
compressed warm ice at the bottom of the ocean, the materials issue would
be difficult. Even the occasional underwater volcano would be hard to take
advantage of.

-Kelly
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