[ExI] Another step towards uploading

Eugen Leitl eugen at leitl.org
Mon Oct 7 05:43:39 UTC 2013


On Sun, Oct 06, 2013 at 06:28:55PM +0100, Anders Sandberg wrote:
> On 2013-10-06 00:07, Rafal Smigrodzki wrote:
> >### Max wrote about the choices between vitrification vs. fixation
> >recently (or was it somebody else at Alcor?). The problem is that
> >suspension usually takes place under non-optimal conditions -
> >instead of live perfusion as in the case of animals used for the
> >scans you mentioned, the cryonauts are treated typically after
> >many hours of warm ischemia and this means the perfusion can be
> >rather poor. Freezing here at least stops further damage. Keeping
> >a poorly perfused brain at room temp makes it turn into a mush.
> 
> The problem might be that fixing brains has the same problem. In
> reality, you will need to proceed more or less like for
> cryosuspension: wait until the patient is declared dead, and then

There might be a loophole: euthanasia is legal in some jurisdictions.
Eliminating peri-arrest damage appears to be crucial for optimal
perfusion.

> start biostasis protocols. In fact, I expect cryonics people to be
> the best kind of people to perform the initial stages of a fixation
> procedure - they know their way around distributing chemicals in a

Everybody keeps talking about fixation/plastination with full
ultrastructure preservation at liter scale as if it was a solved problem. It isn't.

Everybody keeps talking that fixation/plastination preserves all
relevant aspects necessary for personal reconstruction. Nobody knows that.

> deanimating body. Lab histologists are a little bit too used to
> being able to force the deanimation themselves, and to small mammal
> brains :-)

Perfusion by diffusion works only on cm^3 scale systems.



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