[ExI] Why do political and economic leaders deny Peak Oil and Climate Change?

Eugen Leitl eugen at leitl.org
Fri Sep 6 16:17:03 UTC 2013

On Fri, Sep 06, 2013 at 08:53:00AM -0700, Adrian Tymes wrote:

> Starting the article with a claim, and repeating it constantly throughout
> the article, doesn't make it true.

The Nile is not just a river in Egypt.
> According to the study Wikipedia cites, wind's EROEI is 18 - a net

We're missing a TW/year substitution rate, and alternative energy
sources (too little, too late) don't produce hydrocarbon gases and

> positive.  Sure, you couldn't solve all the world's energy problems with
> just wind power; solving them is going to require a combination of

The point is that we've missed the boat, and we're in for a world
of hurt. The sooner everyone agrees the less pain there will be.

> solutions, so arguing against each component in turn because it can't do
> 100% is the opposite of helpful.

In order to begin solving a problem you must first realize that you
have a problem. 
> > The best possible solution is de-industrialization, starting with
> > Heinberg’s
> > 50 million farmers, while also limiting immigration, instituting high taxes
> > and other disincentives to encourage people to not have more than one child
> > so we can get under the maximum carrying capacity as soon as possible.
> >
> So is this a world problem or a US problem?  "Limiting immigration" doesn't

It is a world problem. But as a subsistence farmer your life already sucks,
and it will only suck a little more.

> affect the world so much, but "carrying capacity" only makes sense in the
> context of the entire world (because food can be imported, on a sustainable
> basis, to any given nation).

Billions of people can barely afford their next meal. Quadruple the
food prices. What happens?
> That drivel has no place on a transhumanist list, other than to see the
> nature of the ignorance and attitudes we're still fighting against.

You're not solving the problem. You're being a part of the problem.

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