[ExI] Why do political and economic leaders deny Peak Oil and Climate Change?

Adrian Tymes atymes at gmail.com
Fri Sep 6 16:42:16 UTC 2013

On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 9:17 AM, Eugen Leitl <eugen at leitl.org> wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 06, 2013 at 08:53:00AM -0700, Adrian Tymes wrote:
> > Starting the article with a claim, and repeating it constantly throughout
> > the article, doesn't make it true.
> The Nile is not just a river in Egypt.

Yep.  And the fingers-in-ears denial here is that there are ways technology
can solve this problem.  They're hard to do, though.  It's so much easier
to just declare that we're all screwed and everybody else is going to have
to suck it up.

> > According to the study Wikipedia cites, wind's EROEI is 18 - a net
> We're missing a TW/year substitution rate, and alternative energy
> sources (too little, too late) don't produce hydrocarbon gases and
> liquids.

Like I said in the very next sentence, wind can't do all the world's energy
problems - but the way to get that TW/year substitution rate is to assemble
it from a variety of sources, and not damn every single one (like wind)
just because it won't do it all itself.

As to hydrocarbons, they can be manufactured given enough energy.  The
problem is thus having enough energy.

> > solutions, so arguing against each component in turn because it can't do
> > 100% is the opposite of helpful.
> In order to begin solving a problem you must first realize that you
> have a problem.

Being addicted to disasterbation is a problem, yes.  It often compels
people to not only not help solve bigger problems, but to actively get in
the way of those who are because they're convinced that all efforts to do
good must inevitably, tragically do more harm than good.

> > > The best possible solution is de-industrialization, starting with
> > > Heinberg’s
> > > 50 million farmers, while also limiting immigration, instituting high
> taxes
> > > and other disincentives to encourage people to not have more than one
> child
> > > so we can get under the maximum carrying capacity as soon as possible.
> > >
> >
> > So is this a world problem or a US problem?  "Limiting immigration"
> doesn't
> It is a world problem.

Then what's that note about limiting immigration doing there?  That's
inapplicable in the context of the world.

> You're not solving the problem. You're being a part of the problem.

That you sincerely believe this is the problem with disasterbation: rather
than try to fix the root problem, you think it better to attack people
because they are trying to fix the root problem.
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