[ExI] How to make progress (was Re: Why do political and economic leaders deny Peak Oil and Climate Change?)

Brent Allsop brent.allsop at canonizer.com
Sat Sep 7 20:27:52 UTC 2013

Why is it that people are so willing to put so much time, effort and 
pain on possibly critically important things like this, when there are 
better ways to go about this and get something done. Sure, there could 
be some existential threat out there, but if there is is this the best 
way to go about it?

Sure, there may be lots of people that through much rational effort, 
determine that something like 'peak oil', 'global warming', or whatever 
is critically morally important to everyone.  But there are also other 
rational camps out there into which people have also put much effort.  
Camps just infinitely stating their beliefs in half baked non rigorous 
ways like this, descending into this kind of rhetoric, just hurts 
everyone, and makes it impossible to even talk about such potentially 
very important to all moral things.

Might I propose a far better way than wasting so much effort on this, 
forcing each camp to hate the other, making it impossible to communicate 
in this way?

We also once had terrible talks like this, and completely failed to 
communicate about 'qualia'.  Does anyone remember those great days?  How 
many times did one camp accuse another camp of being 'hittler', or 
worse, a 'religious fanatic'....?  But of course, those days where 
everyone wasted so much time and effort, making comunication ever more 
impossible, are long gone, since everyone just 'canonized' their views:


Now people no longer need to ask questons like "why to "political and 
economic leaders deny Peak Oil", or why do scientists always deny there 
are spiritual qualities or 'qualia'.  Everyone can finally respect 
everyone again, value diversity, and better understand the other point 
of view, without thinking they are Hitler, Anti Christ, or the destroyer 
of the world.  And everyone's understanding of the real issues and all 
leading consensus camps, has been amplified, hugely!!  We are making 
real progress, not just making everyone hate each other.

If there really is an expert consensus around something like 'peak oil', 
then start building an expert consensus on just that, and stating, in a 
unified voice, exactly why you, and all the experts (hopefully experts 
that the other camp trusts) agree.  And do it in a forum where all who 
disagree with you can also state, concisely and quantitatively, why they 
can't accept that 'peak oil' is a problem.  Are you interested, at all, 
in that?  Good luck truly communicating to those that need to 
understand, if you're not.

Then, maybe we can really  communicate, and hopefully thereby avoid the 
end of the world.  I know canonizer.com is a bit hard to understand, and 
takes a bit of work - but it certainly takes far less time, effort, and 
pain that is always put into complete waste of time, making it ever 
harder to communicate, infinite yes no yes not discussions like this.  
Or maybe help make Canonizer.com a bit easier to use, no one person can 
do it all alone.

Just canonizer your view, and from then on all you need to do is kindly 
say: "I'm in that expert consensus camp - is there an equally expert 
consensus camp emerging around what you believe". And there by really 
communicate, and maybe really save the world, with no  fuss, no muss.


Brent Allsop

On 9/7/2013 1:37 PM, Adrian Tymes wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 11:52 AM, Eugen Leitl <eugen at leitl.org 
> <mailto:eugen at leitl.org>> wrote:
>     > Actually, there's no boat; you're just telling people to drown.
>      Like John
>     Actually, you're literally Hitler. You gassed the Jews. Personally.
> Huh.  I've never before seen such a clear application of Godwin's Law.
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat

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