[ExI] BICEP2 and the Fermi paradox

[Tomaz Kristan]

An eventual theologian reading  this dialog between spike and John may
learn a lot! :-D


On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 7:28 PM, spike <spike66 at att.net> wrote:

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> *>…On Behalf Of *John Clark
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> *Subject:* Re: [ExI] BICEP2 and the Fermi paradox
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> On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 3:21 PM, spike <spike66 at att.net> wrote:
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> > It [the New Testament] makes comments in there about the final fate of
> the wicked unbelievers, but it doesn’t actually say anything about an
> immoral soul, or that the suffering of the damned is eternal.
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>
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> >…I think the Bible is as clear as it is morally corrupt on this subject.
> Consider Revelation 20:10
>
> " And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning
> sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will
> be tormented day and night for ever and ever."
>
> Ja, that’s the devil, the beast and the false prophet, not the humans.  It
> might be interpreted as humans I will grant, but it isn’t specific.  The
> devil is a supernatural being, the beast is apparently some member of the
> animal kingdom specifically not human and the false prophet I suppose is
> human.
>
> Or Mark 3:29:
>
> "he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness,
> but is in danger of eternal damnation".
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> Ja.  Doesn’t say the eternally damned are actually alive.
>
> Or this quotation from Jesus in Matthew 25:41:
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>
> "Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for
> the devil and his angels."
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> Ja.  Angels are not humans.  The devil is superhuman.
>
> Or Mark 9:43
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>
> >…"And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to
> enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the
> fire that never shall be quenched"…
>
> Ja.  It sounds to me like going into hell is specifically differentiated
> and contrasted from the opposite, which is to enter into life.
>
> > The worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched (Mark ch.9) but that’s
> the worm and the fire, not the damned humans.
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>
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> >…Spike, is it your position that when the Bible refers to a "worm" it is
> not referring to a human of somewhat low moral character but to an
> invertebrate in the phylum Nematoda?
>
> We don’t know.  I expect that some of the bible writers may have had the
> notion of eternal flames with living beings suffering, but in general this
> is a more recent theological invention, one that sold like hotcakes once it
> was introduced, and thus spawned successfully.
>
> >… If that is true then the author of the Bible really needs to take a
> creative writing class to improve His clarity of expression.  John K
> Clark
>
> Ja granted.  My notion in all this is that most of our traditional visions
> of eternally burning hell with former humans immortalized in order to
> suffer are from more recent times, and were defined by Dante’s Inferno in
> the 14th century.  The whole notion was popular as hell.
>
> When we claim Christianity is morally bankrupt because it carries the
> notion of a god who tortures unbelievers eternally, we inadvertently
> promote those segments of Christianity which specifically deny this feature
> of mainstream Christianity, such as Seventh Day Adventist.
>
> spike
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