[ExI] BICEP2 and the Fermi paradox

[spike]

>.On Behalf Of John Clark
Subject: Re: [ExI] BICEP2 and the Fermi paradox

 

On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 3:21 PM, spike <spike66 at att.net> wrote:

 

> It [the New Testament] makes comments in there about the final fate of the
wicked unbelievers, but it doesn't actually say anything about an immoral
soul, or that the suffering of the damned is eternal. 

 

>.I think the Bible is as clear as it is morally corrupt on this subject.
Consider Revelation 20:10

" And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning
sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be
tormented day and night for ever and ever."

Ja, that's the devil, the beast and the false prophet, not the humans.  It
might be interpreted as humans I will grant, but it isn't specific.  The
devil is a supernatural being, the beast is apparently some member of the
animal kingdom specifically not human and the false prophet I suppose is
human.

Or Mark 3:29:

"he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but
is in danger of eternal damnation".

Ja.  Doesn't say the eternally damned are actually alive.

Or this quotation from Jesus in Matthew 25:41:


"Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the
devil and his angels." 

Ja.  Angels are not humans.  The devil is superhuman.

Or Mark 9:43


>."And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter
into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that
never shall be quenched".

Ja.  It sounds to me like going into hell is specifically differentiated and
contrasted from the opposite, which is to enter into life.

> The worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched (Mark ch.9) but that's the
worm and the fire, not the damned humans.

 

>.Spike, is it your position that when the Bible refers to a "worm" it is
not referring to a human of somewhat low moral character but to an
invertebrate in the phylum Nematoda? 

We don't know.  I expect that some of the bible writers may have had the
notion of eternal flames with living beings suffering, but in general this
is a more recent theological invention, one that sold like hotcakes once it
was introduced, and thus spawned successfully.

>. If that is true then the author of the Bible really needs to take a
creative writing class to improve His clarity of expression.  John K Clark 

Ja granted.  My notion in all this is that most of our traditional visions
of eternally burning hell with former humans immortalized in order to suffer
are from more recent times, and were defined by Dante's Inferno in the 14th
century.  The whole notion was popular as hell.

When we claim Christianity is morally bankrupt because it carries the notion
of a god who tortures unbelievers eternally, we inadvertently promote those
segments of Christianity which specifically deny this feature of mainstream
Christianity, such as Seventh Day Adventist.

spike

 






 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/extropy-chat/attachments/20140409/91ef7f4a/attachment.html>