[ExI] Be nice to leftists

[Omar Rahman]

> Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 13:37:38 -0700
> From: "spike" <spike66 at att.net>
> To: "'ExI chat list'" <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
> Subject: Re: [ExI] Be nice to leftists
> 
> 
> From: extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org
> [mailto:extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org] On Behalf Of Tara Maya
> Subject: Re: [ExI] Be nice to leftists
> 
> 
> 
>> .Governments exist to ensure that the free and consensual exchange of
> ideas, labor and goods is possible, and if they overstep their bounds they
> become slave masters and thieves instead of our protectors.Tara Maya
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent post Tara, exceedingly good, thanks for this.
> 
> 

I also agree with Tara's closing sentence.


> 
> I am surprised really that in our modern day we need to defend capitalism at
> all.  With all we have seen, the serial collapse of every communist regime,
> the capitalist march of China and Vietnam, the post-child epic fail which is
> North Korea, it should be perfectly self-evident.
> 

I'm surprised in our modern day that intelligent people can't seem to see that capitalism has no built in sense of morality and is in fact 'morally bankrupt'.

I don't think anyone has been writing from a 'pro-communist' standpoint. I certainly am not.

My stance is: environmental-socialist-democracy-science

Political discussion is relevant in this list for reasons like you outline below.


> 
> Now we have a new challenge coming.  Just as state and local governments are
> debating a huge increase in minimum wages, we have waiting in the wings the
> technology to completely automate the classic low-end job, fast food.
> Robots can flip burgers, and they can do everything we currently hire
> minimum wage workers to do.  If the minimum wage goes up as high as the
> proponents suggest, so many of these jobs disappear.  Consider also the poor
> slob who has been working at one of these crummy jobs for years, shown up on
> time, refrained from stealing, been a good employee, etc, so now she has
> worked her wage up to 15 bucks an hour.  Now suddenly she is back to minimum
> wage, making the same as those she is expected to supervise, as the place
> closes the door to make way for the robots.  Hmmm.
> 

Maybe she should get a raise too? 

> 
> 
> Turns out Jeremy Rifkin was partially right, but for the wrong reasons.
> 
> 
> 
> spike


The above is a great example of why socialism is inevitable. The computers and robots are going to make more and more jobs redundant. This trend has displaced 'hunters' and 'gatherers' with those new fangled 'farmers' and it seems it will continue. If we are right, and thought can be automated, then the rocket scientists can be automated. We soon might be physically incapable of thinking fast enough to ever get on the cutting edge again. In the long run we are all burger flippers. Something is going to need to be done with us. If we can't be upgraded, what then?

The capitalist solution would be for us to offer what we can, i.e. nothing, and receive in fair exchange what we can, also nothing. Your only trading partners will probably be other pre-singularity entities. This might leave us as a basically subsistence economy. Luckily, if we don't let population growth get out  of hand it could be a post-scarcity subsistence economy. All that growth that economies love will be happening to the post-singularity economy.


Without the fiction of endless growth we will be confronted with the reality of our shared environment. Environmentalism is inevitable.

Without the fiction of the value of our products we will be confronted with reality of our shared needs. Socialism is inevitable.

If we fail to adopt socialism, democracy, and environmentalism and inculcate these things in the post-singularity entities we will end up being the aboriginals meeting the 'Europeans'.....that didn't end well for the aboriginals. Our future, and the future of all living things on this planet, is based on the post-singularity entities valuing the natural environment and us as individuals. 

Well, wait a minute, what if we can be uploaded or upgraded?

If I as Omar vers. 634.1.7.9.2 want to design a rocket I might try to get some code from Spike vers. 7893.456.3.2.12. I'm going to go ahead and assume that the 'designing a rocket test' is a far harder test than a Turing test. I'm going to assume that the code Spike gives me isn't going to be a nihilist with a death wish (because I really wouldn't want to fly in a rocket designed by that sort of person)....so he isn't going to want to be shut off/killed. So I'm going to have to respect his rights. Ship him back to the main Spike, keep him in my mind town, let him loose, integrate him into myself; something other than killing/shutting off. Even if I spawn a part of myself to become a rocket scientist by training, I still believe that that part of me would qualify as a person and have all the attendant rights. Socialism is still inevitable.

Protest sign 78 years from now: "Worried about what spike.swarm is doing to the orbit of Jupiter? Keep the Lagrange Points where they are!" Environmentalism will also be inevitable.

I also believe that democracy is inevitable but post singularity it might be exceedingly hard to register voters, i.e. 'how many votes should spike.swarm get considering he is an entity that can shift the orbit of Jupiter?'


And....um...science is inevitable too......because that is my deeply held conviction based on the traditions of my people....;)


Best regards,

Omar Rahman


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