[ExI] Objective standards?

William Flynn Wallace foozler83 at gmail.com
Wed Sep 30 17:10:09 UTC 2015


Son of a biiiiiiiiitch…

I aughta hit

You in the tit
You little shiiiiiit

Thank you so much, Spike.  I will never be able to listen to Beethoven's
Fifth again without giggling.

bill w

On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 11:29 AM, William Flynn Wallace <foozler83 at gmail.com
> wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 8:04 PM, Dan TheBookMan <danust2012 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 3:38 PM, William Flynn Wallace <
>> foozler83 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Dan - ​Probably an issue of exposure and guidance and maybe
>>> self-control. But if it's all a matter of tastes, why care so much about
>>> it?​
>>> ​Because I am a teacher - to the bone!  Teachers are sharers and if I
>>> love something I want to share it.  That's what psych 101 does, isn't it?
>>> Present a large number of areas in a rather shallow way to see if some are
>>> drawn to one or another and want to follow it up somehow.
>>> As for music, it's not presented in school in most places, and so most
>>> people don't even have the chance to see what they might like, and I think
>>> that's sad.​  Also sad is the fact that they might use it as sonic
>>> wallpaper, just for background and never hear that there is anything more
>>> to it because they don't just sit and listen, and because if they did
>>> they'd still not get all of it because of their untrained ears.
>>> Now - I went to concerts with a chemistry teacher and he knew nothing
>>> about music but he knew he liked some classical.  I argue that his
>>> enjoyment might equal mine, and that he really doesn't need any more
>>> knowledge than he has.  But if he did, he would enjoy it on a more complex
>>> level and on more levels, just as good English teachers can do with books.
>>> No, I did not try to teach him.  I thought it might be perceived as
>>> patronizing.
>>> I have pointed out the donkey imitation in Midsummer Night's Dream, and
>>> that's not essential to the enjoyment, but it's interesting, eh?
>>> Take Huckleberry Finn - the symbolism taught is that the river is a good
>>> place and the shores are bad places etc.  Interesting even if not what
>>> Twain had in mind.  True, as Terry Pratchett said, for a given value of
>>> true.
>> Doesn't much of this seem to answer your question about literary and art
>> analysis and criticism?
>> ​And what was my question?​
>> Also, if it all comes down to pure tastes and also tastes are irreducible
>> ​did I say this? ​
>> and have no other significance, then it still seems to be pointless. In
>> fact, one might argue this distracts from more important things. So, having
>> music only as decoration would be good so that people don't focus too much
>> on it, no? Of course, if there's more to it than tastes or if tastes are
>> not irreducible and do matter (as in one can have bad or the wrong tastes),
>> then it might matter a whole lot. One person might be better off than
>> another simply because she or he has better, more informed, wider, or more
>> refined tastes, for example. Or art (including literature and music) might
>> have a bigger, more important role to play in life than just tastes.
>> ​  why 'just' tastes?  Most of my day is concerned with taste:  what to
>> read, to listen to, to eat, to talk about even- I love these discussions
>> and so it suits my taste to have them - when I make a post and no one is
>> interested I try again to stir thing up -and sometimes I play devil's
>> advocate....
> ​Ask most people what/who they are.  Maybe they will start with their town
> or state,  country, religion, occupation, marital and child status, ​race,
> sex​, level of education, social status, income.  I'd rather talk about my
> tastes - they are more who I am than my degrees of cash on hand.
> Do I think of my tastes as refined?  Somewhat.  Am I an elitist?  Of
> course.
> I do believe in objective standards, but those are highly debatable, as we
> are finding out.  I'd even talk about Ravel versus Debussy as to whom was
> better, though it doesn't make a hill of beans. And at the end our tastes
> are probably unchanged, but what comes out often is that one needs to
> explore others' choices to see if they are a fit for one's own universe.  I
> am extremely picky and so most don't, but often I am pleasantly surprised.
> I have bought a lot of classical CDs, music written after 1950, and the
> vast majority of them are money wasted, but then the few diamonds (Ligeti's
> piano etudes for one) I find are worth it.  I wish I had the money to do
> that with fiction, but as Dan says, there are just so many coming out, as
> Dogbert says, like a fire hose aimed at a teacup.
> Maybe we should start another chat group devoted entirely to posting
> favorite new books and music and what not.
> bill w
>> Regards,
>> Dan
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