[ExI] openness again

[William Flynn Wallace]

On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 11:22 AM, John Clark <johnkclark at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sat, Apr 2, 2016  Anders Sandberg <anders at aleph.se> wrote:
>
> ​> ​
>> My own view is basically that (1) Brin is right: transparent, accountable
>> open societies for the win.
>
>
> ​I presume that wouldn't include the entire world knowing ​my credit card
> number.
>
>
>> ​> ​
>> But (2) to really work they need to be tolerant.
>>
>
> Yes, if the NSA knows all there is to know about me then I should know all
> there is to know about the NSA, and if they have a surveillance camera
> watching me then I should have a equally good surveillance camera watching
> them. But for laws that transparency must be reciprocal to be enforced X
> would have to prove that Y has a secret he is not telling X,  and
> governments are likely to have more resources to conceal things than
> individuals have to reveal them. So in the real world Brin's "Transparent
> Society" is unlikely to be symmetrical; not a plane of clear glass
> ​but ​
> more like a one way mirror.
>
>
>> ​>​
>> I would have no problem with NSA/GHCQ/FRA/... monitoring everything if
>> they were themselves adequately monitored
>
>
> ​Exactly, that's the problem.
>
>   John K Clark​
>
>
> ​Oh, C'mon - you guys are in dreamland.  Has there ever been adequate
> oversight of the NSC, FBI, CIA and only god knows who else in our
> government?  Look at the things Hoover did.  Unbelievable, and yet he
> remains a hero to many.  If this is a problem I suspect it's never going to
> be fixed.  Congressional 'oversight' committees are regularly lied to, if
> you can believe the reports on that.  Including lies of omission.  If you
> don't ask the right questions you don't get the right answers, but how do
> they know what questions to ask?
>

​In effect these agencies are given blank checks and then not asked what
they did with the money.​


​bill w​


> ​
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/extropy-chat/attachments/20160403/5479e3fb/attachment.html>