[ExI] Do digital computers feel?

[William Flynn Wallace]

>
> ​>
> BTW -  connection between intelligence and consciousness.  There is no
> evidence that an amoeba has any memory,
>

​Untrue.​


https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn15068-smart-amoebas-
reveal-origins-of-primitive-intelligence/

​ John K Clark​

Thanks for the info.  I did not know that.  I'll have to think about my
axioms.  bill w

On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 1:21 PM, John Clark <johnkclark at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 4:57 PM, William Flynn Wallace <
> foozler83 at gmail.com> wrote:
> ​
>
>
>
>> ​> ​
>> All I am trying to say is that we are talking about the most complex
>> thing known to man and reducing it to code.
>
>
> ​The brain is complex, but not all that complex. Ray Kurzweil estimates
> you'd need about 50 megabytes of code to emulate the behavior of a newborn
> baby, and that seems about right to me. In the entire human genome there
> are only 3 billion base pairs. There are 4 bases so each base can represent
> 2 bits, there are 8 bits per byte so that comes out to 750 meg. Just 750
> meg. About half of that is for parts of the body other than the brain so
> we're down to 375, and most of that 375 would be for basic metabolism that
> any cell needs to stay alive but has nothing to do with information
> processing,  and the genome is notorious for the inefficient way it encodes
> information with long long stretches of repeats  (often instead of saying
> something like  "write ABC 1001 times" it will actually write "ABC" 1001
> times). So 50 meg seems about right for a seed AI, about the same as it
> would take to record one Britney Spears song with good quality.
>
>
>> ​> ​
>> It just boggles my mind.
>
>
> ​Mine too, but that doesn't mean it's untrue.​
>
>
>>
>> ​>
>> Even if you could hook up every neuron, every glial cell for recording
>> purposes, and assuming that the hookups did not interfere with the
>> functions (which I would very, very seriously doubt)
>>
>
> ​Now you're talking about uploading not just AI, but even so it's just a
> question of making sure the atoms of the correct element ​
>
> are in the correct places.​
>
> > No, every cell is just atoms and I agree that computers and people are
>> alike in that way - no magical something to account for anything including
>> consciousness.
>
>
> ​I'm glad to hear you say that.​
>
>
> ​
>> >
>> ​ ​
>> But by your own logic, you could never tell if a computer program was
>> conscious and could feel.
>>
>
> ​True, ​
>
> ​but except for yourself you could never tell ​that *ANYTHING* is
> conscious and can feel unless you accept certain axioms.
>
> ​> ​
>> By my own logic, all we could do it sample behavior and induce, followed
>> by deduction and further testing.
>>
>
> ​Logic is useless unless there are axioms for that logic to work on. I
> have 2 axioms:
>
> 1) I an conscious.
> 2) Darwin was right about random mutation and natural selection being the
> origin of species.
>
> From those axioms it's easy ​to use logic and deduce that intelligent
> behavior must imply consciousness.  Those are my axioms, so what are your
> axioms?
>
>
>> ​> ​
>> Suppose instead of uploading a real brain, it was built from the getgo
>> with code - the way they are doing it now.  Now suppose that it passes all
>> the Turing tests and whatever.  Would such an advanced computer be capable
>> of lying?  Yes?
>
>
> ​Yes I agree, it could be lying, the AI could just be pretending to be
> stupid when it's really smart as hell, maybe computers already do that and
> have been foolin us for years, and maybe the same thing is true for rocks.
> It would be much more difficult to do the reverse, I don't quite see how
> Einstein could have just been pretending to be smart. ​
>
> ​>
>> BTW -  connection between intelligence and consciousness.  There is no
>> evidence that an amoeba has any memory,
>>
>
> ​Untrue.​
>
>
> https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn15068-smart-amoebas-
> reveal-origins-of-primitive-intelligence/
>
> ​ John K Clark​
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/extropy-chat/attachments/20161223/b71a9b98/attachment.html>