[ExI] Circumcision

[Keith Henson]

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 2:02 PM,   "spike" <spike66 at att.net> wrote:

> . . .

That will mean text deleted, can't use the word I used to.

> At the end of it all, I am the dad, and I pulled rank.

I was not informed that it was going to be done till after it
happened.  Probably would not have made any difference, but at least
the father would have known in advance that it would damage if not end
our business relation.

> . . .

>  Given that opportunity to choose and
> given a break from social pressures, my guess is the circumcision rate would
> go from half to half a percent.

I think the same.  The question is how to do it.  I could still use
advice on how to do meaningful research on the question.  There are
plenty of men around both ways.  How can we generate valid survey
information on how they feel about what was done or not done to them
that might influence parents?  Does it change with age?  I didn't
start to have really annoying problems until I was over 60.

> This brings up an interesting related question about the nature of
> suffering.  An argument was presented to me (by a doctor who was
> respectfully neutral (so he was not advocating for the argument, only
> introducing me to it (and I do commend the Stanford medical staff involved
> (all of whom were perfectly and admirably neutral always)))) that babies
> suffer at the time but don't remember it since the neuronal pathways are
> being formed and reformed.  The notion is that the suffering at the time
> doesn't count if you don't remember it.

This was part of the justification for the very light sentence handed
out in a rape on a woman passed out behind a dumpster at Stanford.
Huge flapping in the news over it, they may recall the judge.

> I found this whole notion so very
> annoying and made my position clear: babies do suffer while the circumcision
> is being performed and it damn well does count.
>
spike, the question is what can be done?

It's a depressing read, but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer#Legacy

"Only a few years after David Reimer's birth, Canada began taking a
stance against infant circumcision, and it is now uncommon there.[13]

I highly appreciate the other responses, particularly Anders.  Will
read and use the references.

It's been more than a week and I am still so upset about this that I
am find it hard to keep track of time and get things done.  I have a
talk at a conference this week on power satellites that I can't
cancel.

That part is a defect in my personality.  Excessive empathy makes it
painful for me to watch most movies.

Keith