[ExI] Last political post for a while (I hope)

Sun Nov 13 06:47:25 UTC 2016

 I couldn't agree more. If Trump ends the reign of political correctness, even if he turns out to be a disaster in every other sense (which is entirely possible), he will have made humanity a favor. Slavoj Zizek largely agrees too, from his particular Zizekian-Marxist POV:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bixgOtkLao&list=PL52uJ5PwDvHvpdAtkCvNJPfPD-E94Iik6&index=49

[https://www.bing.com/th?id=OVF.%2f3ypO9PbIm%2fKlLLQpxMSTw&pid=Api]<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bixgOtkLao&list=PL52uJ5PwDvHvpdAtkCvNJPfPD-E94Iik6&index=49>

Slavoj Žižek: How Political Correctness Actually Elected ...<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bixgOtkLao&list=PL52uJ5PwDvHvpdAtkCvNJPfPD-E94Iik6&index=49>
www.youtube.com
Slovenian philosopher Slavoj Žižek thinks the U.S. political machinery is truly broken. He guides a verbal tour through the failure of manufactured consent, the ...

________________________________
De: extropy-chat <extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org> en nombre de extropy-chat-request at lists.extropy.org <extropy-chat-request at lists.extropy.org>
Enviado: sábado, 12 de noviembre de 2016 20:48
Para: extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
Asunto: extropy-chat Digest, Vol 158, Issue 17

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: The very first question the press should ask Trump
      (Dan TheBookMan)
   2. Re: The very first question the press should ask Trump
      (John Clark)
   3. Re: The very first question the press should ask Trump
      (Adrian Tymes)
   4. Re: The very first question the press should ask Trump
      (William Flynn Wallace)
   5. Re: The very first question the press should ask Trump
      (Darin Sunley)
   6. what the commies are saying (spike)
   7. the joy of now, was:  RE:  The very first question ... (spike)
   8. Last political post for a while (I hope) (Giulio Prisco)
   9. Re: ok, so prove it (Rafal Smigrodzki)

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Message: 1
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2016 16:29:35 -0800
From: Dan TheBookMan <danust2012 at gmail.com>
To: ExI chat list <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
Subject: Re: [ExI] The very first question the press should ask Trump
Message-ID: <FBB112D7-E7EF-412D-BDE0-C665260AEE8D at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

On Nov 11, 2016, at 3:51 PM, spike <spike66 at att.net> wrote:
> I do!
>
> Oh wait, you meant? that guy they say won, OK.
>
> Let?s see, that one, 2020 contest.  Mike Pence and Jenna Bush vs. Michelle Obama and Chelsea Clinton?
>
> Oh we can do so much better than this crowd.  What happened to that guy they had, Senator Jim Webb?  He seemed so honest and sane, a decorated veteran with two purple hearts, I am astonished he didn?t walk away with the nomination with change left over.  Anyone who has been in combat will not be eager to send anyone else?s sons there.

Spike, four years ago you might have made a reasonable guess Hillary Clinton would run and win her party's nomination, but would you have guessed Trump would run and win the GOP nomination? If not, then do you think you have a reasonable guess if who will be the Democratic Party's nominee in 02020? I don't. (Of course, they could be stupid like the GOP -- lining up McCain back in 02008 and Dole back in 01996: weak candidates who seemed to earn being on the ticket by simple seniority rather than broad appeal.;) I think, though, it's likely not to be another Clinton or another Obama.

I believe this campaign kind of was a rejection of the House of Clinton. Meaning? Democrats won't give them another chance. It's likely also a rejection of the House of Bush. Recall how Jeb was predicted an early favorite in 02015, then his campaign evaporated faster then a mini-black hole. Why think future elections will merely be rehashing the same small cast of characters? (This isn't to say much changes: shitty policy mixes, but with new, more often unrelated* faces.)

Regards,

Dan
  Sample my Kindle books via:
http://author.to/DanUst
Amazon.com: Books<http://author.to/DanUst>
author.to
Online shopping from a great selection at Books Store.

* I don't mean complete outsiders, but who were the Clintons in 01990? I was perhaps too young to notice, but had you known about them back then? Anyone else here know of them in 01990?
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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2016 20:43:01 -0500
From: John Clark <johnkclark at gmail.com>
To: ExI chat list <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
Subject: Re: [ExI] The very first question the press should ask Trump
Message-ID:
        <CAJPayv00TuZKMVbmrb4asg3fiw_otzoNp0ONrekd7xrVDiEs8w at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 7:29 PM, Dan TheBookMan <danust2012 at gmail.com>

?> ?
> do you think you have a reasonable guess if who will be the Democratic
> Party's nominee in 02020?

?The question isn't who will be the Democratic Party's nominee in 2020, I
want to know if Trump will allow the Democratic Party to even have a
nominee in 2020. It is not at all obvious to me that he will. And that goes
for the Libertarian Party and Green Party too.

 John K Clark
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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2016 17:52:09 -0800
From: Adrian Tymes <atymes at gmail.com>
To: ExI chat list <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
Subject: Re: [ExI] The very first question the press should ask Trump
Message-ID:
        <CALAdGNR+eDjUWSmGNavASogWnEr8821Cu1tJy23wG6yXu3=p=w at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

On Nov 11, 2016 5:44 PM, "John Clark" <johnkclark at gmail.com> wrote:
> ?The question isn't who will be the Democratic Party's nominee in 2020, I
want to know if Trump will allow the Democratic Party to even have a
nominee in 2020. It is not at all obvious to me that he will. And that goes
for the Libertarian Party and Green Party too.

There is such a psychological block about voting third party that, even if
the GOP were to jail the Dems, I could see them allowing the Libs and the
Greens to give the illusion of democracy.

But I suspect Trump knows he needs the Dems, to save him from the worst of
the GOP for being less than they hoped for.  He has already had a civil
conversation with Obama, which has sent some of them howling in protest for
Trump's head.
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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2016 20:12:44 -0600
From: William Flynn Wallace <foozler83 at gmail.com>
To: ExI chat list <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
Subject: Re: [ExI] The very first question the press should ask Trump
Message-ID:
        <CAO+xQEbgW6LOv=TqZicArz_uxiZCt8oULkxcvP7Ox+Z1emd15w at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Is this the group that used to discuss transhumanism, libertarianism,
extropy?

Just burned out, are you?  It seems that side issues are taking over the
chats. Politics can certain be related to the issues above, but we are not
doing that, are we?  If we are it's too subtle for me.

bill w

On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 7:52 PM, Adrian Tymes <atymes at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Nov 11, 2016 5:44 PM, "John Clark" <johnkclark at gmail.com> wrote:
> > ?The question isn't who will be the Democratic Party's nominee in 2020,
> I want to know if Trump will allow the Democratic Party to even have a
> nominee in 2020. It is not at all obvious to me that he will. And that goes
> for the Libertarian Party and Green Party too.
>
> There is such a psychological block about voting third party that, even if
> the GOP were to jail the Dems, I could see them allowing the Libs and the
> Greens to give the illusion of democracy.
>
> But I suspect Trump knows he needs the Dems, to save him from the worst of
> the GOP for being less than they hoped for.  He has already had a civil
> conversation with Obama, which has sent some of them howling in protest for
> Trump's head.
>
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
extropy-chat Info Page<http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat>
lists.extropy.org
The longest running transhumanist email list in the world. Now entering its second decade, the Extropy-Chat (formerly "Extropians") Email List is open to ExI members ...

>
>
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Message: 5
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2016 19:32:57 -0700
From: Darin Sunley <dsunley at gmail.com>
To: ExI chat list <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
Subject: Re: [ExI] The very first question the press should ask Trump
Message-ID:
        <CAEptUkT3XJidmBJPWoEuBC9J7a691SCzhR9ja_UUrX4Djq+Nog at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

When I watch or read Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, I always listen very
closely to the "Wave" speech. If you're familiar with the work, you know
what I'm talking about. It's a poignant meditation by a man who had devoted
his entire identity to a movement, a movement that was going to change the
world, and then watched it all fade away.

When I think back to the Extropian and transhumanism movements as they were
in the 90's, when I joined this list, and think about what's happened since
then, It almost fills me with joy.

Because we won! Mostly anyways. The weirdo out-there ideas we used to throw
around are now pretty much most people's every day. Millions of people
today used voice recognition on the pocket computers they carry everywhere
to ask a huge network of data centers to query terabyte databases to tell
them where would be a good place to go to lunch. Said database company,
btw, just made an AI that plays Go better than any human. Cryptocurrency is
a significant concern to the financial elites of the world. Billionarire
entreprenuers [who incidentally are pursuing reasonably credible plans to
singlehandedly colonize Mars] speak casually of the world being a computer
simulation, and not only do their stock prices not crash, it makes no
ripple at all! People just say "Yep, may be."

Ok, so diamond-phase nanotechnology could be a bit further ahead, and true
morphological freedom (as opposed to extremely effective medical protheses)
may not be on most people's ethical radars yet, but we're definitely
getting there.

I was the techy weirdo because, in 2001, I was the only person in the
building with cellular internet in 1999. Now I'm the weirdo because I'm
almost the only person in my workplace's building /without/ a smartphone.

Transhumanism and Extropianism didn't fade away, or burn out. They turned
into everyone's background normal. The future we saw has begun to arrive,
and it is still coming.

On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 7:12 PM, William Flynn Wallace <foozler83 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Is this the group that used to discuss transhumanism, libertarianism,
> extropy?
>
> Just burned out, are you?  It seems that side issues are taking over the
> chats. Politics can certain be related to the issues above, but we are not
> doing that, are we?  If we are it's too subtle for me.
>
> bill w
>
> On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 7:52 PM, Adrian Tymes <atymes at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Nov 11, 2016 5:44 PM, "John Clark" <johnkclark at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > ?The question isn't who will be the Democratic Party's nominee in 2020,
>> I want to know if Trump will allow the Democratic Party to even have a
>> nominee in 2020. It is not at all obvious to me that he will. And that goes
>> for the Libertarian Party and Green Party too.
>>
>> There is such a psychological block about voting third party that, even
>> if the GOP were to jail the Dems, I could see them allowing the Libs and
>> the Greens to give the illusion of democracy.
>>
>> But I suspect Trump knows he needs the Dems, to save him from the worst
>> of the GOP for being less than they hoped for.  He has already had a civil
>> conversation with Obama, which has sent some of them howling in protest for
>> Trump's head.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> extropy-chat mailing list
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
>> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
extropy-chat Info Page<http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat>
lists.extropy.org
The longest running transhumanist email list in the world. Now entering its second decade, the Extropy-Chat (formerly "Extropians") Email List is open to ExI members ...

>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>
>
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Message: 6
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2016 18:38:16 -0800
From: "spike" <spike66 at att.net>
To: "'ExI chat list'" <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
Subject: [ExI] what the commies are saying
Message-ID: <023e01d23c8d$d2d73460$78859d20$@att.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r"

Sometimes it helps to get a foreign perspective when one's own press is all
over the map.  Here's what the Russians are saying:

?????? ??????????????: ????? ?? ?????? ?????????? ?????? ??????

?????????? 959 ???????????? 1 ???????? 6

????? ????? ???????? ???????????? ???????? ?????????? ?????? ?????? - ??????
????????? ? ?????????? ???????? ?????? ????? ????????? ?????????????
??????????? ????????? ??????????? ?????? ???.

"??? ?? ????? ?? ?????? ????? ?????? ?? ?????? ??????, ?? ? ??????????????
?? ????????? ??????? - ??? ??????? ? ????????????? ? ???????? ????? ?
????????? ?????? ??? ????????????? ?? ?????? ? ????? ????, ?? ? ??
????????????? ?????", - ??????? ???? ?? ??????? ??????????????? ??????.

"?????? ????? - ???????? ?????? ?? ????????? ??????, ?????????? ???????? ??
???? ??????? ?? ????????? ??????, ? ????????? ?? ???????????? ???????. ?????
???????????? ???? ? ??????? ?????????? ?? ??????? ? ?? ????????? ?.???????
?????? ?????? ????????. ????? ???????? ??? ??????????? ????? ????????", -
????????? ???????.

"?????????? ???? ?????? ?? ????????? ? ??????????? ??????? ?????. ??? ????
?????? ??????? ?? ??????? ???? ??????? ?????. ?? ????? ?? ????? ???????? ?
???, ??? ?????? ????? ?? ?? ?????? ??????, ? ?? ?????? ???????",,-
???????????? ?????????.

?? ?????? ??????????? ???????, "????? ????? ?????????? ???????? ???, ???
???? ?????? ????????? ????? ?? ??????? ??????????". ??? ?????????, ??????,
??? ??????? "???? ?????????" ? ????? ?????????? ??????????? ?????????.

"???????? ???????????? ????????????? ??????, ????????????? ??????????
??????????????, ??????????????, ??????????? ??????? ? ??? ?????? ??????
??????, ????? - ????????? ??? ? ????? ??????????? ? ????????? ????? ??????",
- ??????? ??.

????? ???????????? ????? ????????? ????? ???????? ??? ??????????? ?????????
? ????? ? ??????? ??????, ?? ?????? ?? "????????? ??????? ???
?????????????".

"?????? - ??? ???????????-?????????????? ?????????-???????????? ?????????
?????? ????? ? ?????????????. ?????? - ?????, ??? ??????????? ????????
????????, ????? ????? ?????? ????????? ???? ?? ?????????? ?????? ????????
????????, ???????? ??????????, ??????? ?????????", - ??????? ??.

"? ????????? ???? ??????????? ????????? ?? ??????????? ???????????? ???????,
??????, ??? "???????????? ????", ??????? ????? ?????????? ??????? ?????????,
????????? ?? ??????????",- ????????? ?????? ???????????? ?????????????????
??????????????.

"????? ????? ?????????????, ????????????? ???????? ? ???????? ??????? ???. ?
???????? ??????????? ?? ?????? ??????????, ??? ??????????? ??????, ??????,
???????????? ????????????? ???????, ???????? ????????????, ??????????
??????????? ??????????? ??????? ??????, ??? ????? ??????????????, ?????????,
????????? "??????? ?????????", - ????????? ??.

"????? ??? ??????????? ?? 100% ????? ????????. ??? ?????? ?????? - ?????,
???????????? ????? ???????? ? ????????? ? ????????? ??????????????
?????????",- ??????? ???????????? ?????.

????????, ??? ??????? ????? ????????? ????????? ????????? ? ?????????
?????????? ? ??????? ??????? ??????? ?? ??????? ?????????? ???. ???
????????? ??????? ??????? ??? ????????? 70-??????? ???????????, ??????? ????
????????? ? ????????? ??? ? ???????.

This perspective didn't help a bit.  I just don't know what to think of this
commentary.  Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that I don't
understand a single word of Russian.

The English translation makes a lot more sense however:

Should Russia rejoice at Donald Trump's victory?

09.11.2016

The head of the Civil Society Development Fund, Konstantin Kostin, is
certain that the victory of presidential candidate Donald Trump has
demonstrated people's disappointment in the old American elite.

"No one was expecting Trump to win. They did not expect the Republicans to
take the majority at the Senate elections. This speaks of people's
disappointment in Obama's policies. The American people have shown that they
do not want to see Democrats either in the White House or on Capitol Hill,"
one of Russia's leading political strategists said.

"The Americans were ready to accept Obama's tax increases. At the same time,
many people had to cut their living standards. Yet, no one wants to give the
money to the lazy instead of the poor," the analyst believes.

According to Konstantin Kostin, "Trump will defend US interests, while
reducing the budget spending on the export of democracy."

"Let's wait for the formation of the Trump administration. It is hard for me
to understand the Russian MPs, who applauded to the news about Trump's
election. Trump is the US President, and he will act in the interests of his
country first and foremost," the analyst said.

Donald Trump's victory is not a perfect occasion for applause on Russia's
part, yet, Russia has two reasons for restrained optimism, Mr. Kostin
believes.

"First off, US-Russian relations have always been better and more
predictable during the times of Republican presidents. Secondly, Trump, as
an adherent of realpolitik, will certainly be against the USA's mission of
the global hegemon, exporter of democracy and color revolutions," he
explained.  "Trump is most unusual and anti-system candidate in modern US
history. The support that Trump has received means that most Americans are a
lot more interested in their own income, taxes and safety than in the rights
of sexual minorities, migrants and issues associated with color revolutions.

"Trump has taken a complete advantage of this in his campaign. His winning
recipe contains such ingredients as bright and extraordinary style in
conjunction with absolutely conservative rhetoric," Konstantin Kostin said.

Politonline

- See more at:
http://www.pravdareport.com/russia/politics/09-11-2016/136111-russia_donald_
trump_wins-0/#sthash.ndBuskdM.dpuf

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Message: 7
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2016 19:44:17 -0800
From: "spike" <spike66 at att.net>
To: "'ExI chat list'" <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
Subject: [ExI] the joy of now, was:  RE:  The very first question ...
Message-ID: <028201d23c97$0bd62ec0$23828c40$@att.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

From: extropy-chat [mailto:extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org] On Behalf Of Darin Sunley
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2016 6:33 PM
To: ExI chat list <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
Subject: Re: [ExI] The very first question the press should ask Trump

>?When I think back to the Extropian and transhumanism movements as they were in the 90's, when I joined this list, and think about what's happened since then, It almost fills me with joy?

Thanks for this Darin.  With me it isn?t almost.  I am filled with joy when I ponder where our heads were in the 1990s and compare.  Back in those days, about 1994 when the internet was really starting up, when I started reading (but not yet posting to) Extropians, what kinds of things I was thinking.  I didn?t allow myself to believe the wilder things, fearing disappointment should it fail to appear.  Other areas I so underestimated, I am delighted completely.  For instance:

We talked a lot about some form of flying cars.  I know how to do the calcs on that, so I knew that no matter what, we were not going up, not on a daily individual basis.  No flying cars: inherent limitations in vertical take-off will always be with us, regardless of material advances.  So I knew that was going to be a no-show.  Check.  What I didn?t foresee was the stunning development of other technologies that would make high speed transportation less relevant now than it was 20 yrs ago.

We talked a lot about transparency.  Watching how one of our own took hold of this and created WikiLeaks has been a constant delight.  Watching its impact on government, astonishing, exhilarating.

We talked about advances in computing power.  That Moore?s Law continued as long as it did right up to near the atomic limit blows my mind.

We talked about future astronomy instruments, but back then I never would have dreamed we would build LIGO and have it find something immediately.  That one thing is a perfect example of something I just would not have believed, even if a deep booming voice had come from a clear sky, the kind of deep booming voice you just know doesn?t lie, telling me an instrument would be built and would find gravity waves.  I would have found the nearest bullhorn and pointed it back skyward and shouted NOOOOO WAAAAAY?  But it happened.

The real-money ideas futures: I just won a pile on this latest election.  It helps to remind oneself that betting is on what you believe is going to happen, not what you want to happen.  I did.  I won.

Brain prosthesis: well wait now, think about it.  We didn?t get an implantable device, but what we did get is in some ways better: these nifty little smart phones with internet and OK Google is pretty close to a brain prosthetic.  I would argue it is better in a way.  Suppose some yahoo invented a device you could surgically implant in your brain to get 20 additional IQ points.  Would I do it?  Probably not.  Why?  It would hafta be risky and expensive.  Brain surgery just isn?t going to be cheap and it isn?t going to be without major risks, no way.  At this point I might envy those who received one, but probably wouldn?t do it myself.  But I take my phone everywhere, and I use OK Google a lot.

I took the cub scouts and joined a Veterans Day parade in San Jose today.  I used OK Google about a dozen times while I was out.  Cell phones are cheap and pose no risk at all.  I would argue this is a form of brain prosthetic that turned out better than 90s visions.

That the internet would become as effective a means of education for all has exceeded my grandest vision.  Now we all carry the world?s libraries in our pockets.

There is grandeur in this view of life.

spike

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Message: 8
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2016 09:20:04 +0100
From: Giulio Prisco <giulio at gmail.com>
To: ExI chat list <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
Subject: [ExI] Last political post for a while (I hope)
Message-ID:
        <CAKTCJyfTVTXNV6DVc19w0yXnBib4EKcif9-F3WcRW=kVr2dFRg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Last political post for a while (I hope)
https://giulioprisco.com/last-political-post-for-a-while-i-hope-cce8a82d9103

I warned that the excesses of the Politically Correct (PC) ?Social
Justice Warriors? (SJWs) would push lots of reasonable people to
Donald???now President-elect???Trump. It appears I was right. I was
not only right: I was spectacularly right...

------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2016 07:47:51 -0500
From: Rafal Smigrodzki <rafal.smigrodzki at gmail.com>
Cc: ExI chat list <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
Subject: Re: [ExI] ok, so prove it
Message-ID:
        <CAAc1gFjSd-r4v3X9vMd56E8rYzdgTE_itifaVrfoKP-HbpWAWA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I know it because I can think and derive this from first principles.

On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 12:37 PM, John Clark <johnkclark at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 10:15 AM, Rafal Smigrodzki <
> rafal.smigrodzki at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ?> ?
>> ### Of course, the elections were rigged up the wazoo, and she knows it -
>> her boys did the rigging.
>>
>
> ?And you know this because you don't read newspapers but you do
> read Breitbart and Fox News. And Breitbart and Fox News always tell the
> truth.
>
> John K Clark
>

--
Rafal Smigrodzki, MD-PhD
Senior Scientist,
Gencia Corporation
706 B Forest St.

Charlottesville, VA 22903

tel: (434) 295-4800

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