[ExI] Quantum consciousness, quantum mysticism, and transhumanist engineering

Sun Apr 2 23:43:54 UTC 2017

On Sun, Apr 2, 2017  William Flynn Wallace <foozler83 at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Here's the thing:  I want to get you to agree that study of alertness, or
> whatever you want to call it, is or can be scientific.
>

It's hard for me to agree or disagree because there are contradictory
definitions of the word "alert". One is
"
a state of vigilance readiness or caution
"
and I'd agree you can scientifically study that.
But another definition

of the same word is "
fully aware
", and there is no way to scientifically study that unless unproven
assumptions are made.

> > 
> If this is not a test of consciousness according to the examples you would
> like to use, then I'd like to know what you would use.

My test for consciousness is intelligent behavior, I can't prove it's the
correct test but I use it anyway. So maybe I'm wrong but I can live with a
little uncertainty because if I am wrong you'll never be able to prove me
wrong.

> >
> If you think that no one will ever prove that others are conscious then
> poking will not suffice as an example in your opinion.

I'm fine with the poking test because like everybody else I long ago
accepted the axiom that intelligent behavior and consciousness are linked.
And the reason I accepted that axiom is that like everybody else I could
not function if I really believed I was the only conscious being in the
universe.

> > 
> Every abstract variable, as I am sure I don't have to tell you, is always
> and forever in an 'as if' context.  It is 'as if' they have a big ego, or
> high intelligence, or low sociability, or poor use of language.  So as with
> consciousness:  it is 'as if' they are conscious

I don't think that works. I can say that many member of this list are
intelligent and I don't need assumptions or axioms to make that statement,
but the only consciousness I have first hand experience with is my own, and
many members of this list do not behave "as if" they were conscious like
me; if they did I wouldn't have anybody to argue with, they'd always agree
with everything I said.

John K Clark   
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