[ExI] it's the yoga! was: RE: The Doomsday Clock

[William Flynn Wallace]

Maybe they don't want to blend in. They shouldn't have to. And they
shouldn't have to measure up to your standards of worthiness.  Dave

I am a liberal and support welfare to the needy.  The Indians are needy
because they have a depressed culture full of alcoholism, drug addiction,
crime,and a high suicide rate.  Would you leave these people alone to
suffer?   I would try to help, but the status quo is not working.

If they are going to be members of this society, they need to contribute to
it.  I think that's a standard everyone, liberal or conservative, will
support.  Otherwise how can they respect themselves?  Maybe they don't, and
that's their basic problem.

I agree with no reparations: black, Indians, anyone.  This reminds me of
original sin, the idea that Adam and Eve sunk all the rest of us by their
disobedience.  Humbug.  I am not responsible for what my ancestors did, and
the offspring of the victims are not harmed by what was done to their
ancestors.

Many black leaders have bemoaned the welfare system as destroying the black
culture, taking away incentives to marry the woman they impregnated, get
and hold jobs, etc.  Maybe the same could be said of the Indians.

Help people get on their feet, and THEN leave them alone.

bill w

On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 11:55 AM, Dave Sill <sparge at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 12:04 PM, William Flynn Wallace <
> foozler83 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> I am hardly without sympathies for all the people Europeans slaughtered
>> and decimated with small pox, though it was just like what always happens
>> with two cultures with far different technology clash.
>>
>
> You said:
>
>   The Indians should have, from the beginning, appropriated American's
> culture and just blended in to it.
>
> I don't think anything short of evacuation would have appeased the
> Europeans. The problem wasn't that the natives refused European culture
> (which they had every right to do), it's that the natives stood in the way
> of greedy and insensitive Europeans.
>
>
>> It's not so much blame the victim to me, it's just that they did not have
>> the right stuff to compete with Europeans.
>>
>
> Maybe it shouldn't always be about competition. Maybe we should elevate
> ourselves to the level respecting others' rights and cultures.
>
>
>> And still don't.  You can argue heredity/environment endlessly, but what
>> American Indians have accomplished, before and after we came, is very
>> little.
>>
>
> Yeah, this 60000-structure city built 1500 years ago had nothing on
> ancient Europeans:
>
>     http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5365015/
> New-images-reveal-Mayan-megalopolis-stunning-detail.html
>
>
>> Other groups with mindbending poverty, illness, oppression, and so on in
>> their backgrounds, have blended in - assimilated.  Not so American
>> Indians.  Look at the California Vietnamese.  Doughnut czars now.
>>
>
> Maybe they don't want to blend in. They shouldn't have to. And they
> shouldn't have to measure up to your standards of worthiness.
>
>
>> On the positive side, the Indians now have all the opportunities of
>> modern society, health care, food stamps, TV, firewater, which they would
>> maybe never have had had they been left alone for another thousand years.
>>
>
> Oh, yeah, that's a huge positive. I'm sure they're thrilled and thankful
> for having met us. :rolleyes:
>
> Dave?  Do you think we owe them endlessly?  Reparations forever?
>>
>
> No, we can't undo the damage that's been done. But we can stop inflicting
> more and we can leave them the fuck alone.
>
> -Dave
>
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