[ExI] it's the yoga! was: RE: The Doomsday Clock

[William Flynn Wallace]

Ah, the wise white man thinks he understands the problem and has a fix.
Hallelujah!    dave

This is not an intelligent person's way of having a discussion.  Don't get
sarky with me and I will return the favor.  bill w

dave  They've lost most of their culture and are forced to live on land
that can't really support life.
---
I don't think it is true that they cannot leave the reservation.  Where did
you get that idea?  Perhaps they can't leave the reservation and still get
government handouts.  And just who is failing to let them regain their
culture?  OK, so they can't go roaming around killing bison and white
settlers.  What else are we restricting them from?  And I don't see where
anyone is forcing 'fixes' on them, but I really don't know.  And I also
don't know what good, if anything, has come from leaving them alone.  They
need to get off their asses, off alcohol, off drugs, and get a life of
their choosing.  I have no idea how to facilitate this or whether we just
should leave them alone.  Some people just won't be helped - they'd rather
sit and be miserable.  If I am wrong, show me.

To get a bit technical, the murders of Indians, the forced shoving them
around, putting them in places they did not want to be, and all that,
perhaps created a cultural 'external locus of control' situation.  (If you
had an inner one, you'd be sure that you could solve your own problems.
Outer = others have to do it for you).  Surely the Indians recognized the
far superior nature of the European culture and also their powerlessness to
resist it.  (Another technical term here is 'learned helplessness')

bill w



On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 10:01 AM, Dave Sill <sparge at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 5:16 PM, William Flynn Wallace <foozler83 at gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
>>
>> I am a liberal and support welfare to the needy.  The Indians are needy
>> because they have a depressed culture full of alcoholism, drug addiction,
>> crime,and a high suicide rate.  Would you leave these people alone to
>> suffer?   I would try to help, but the status quo is not working.
>>
>
> Why do they have a depressed culture? Maybe it was because their recent
> ancestors were driven from their land, decimated by diseases to which they
> had no resistance, and forced to give up their language and culture.
>
> If they are going to be members of this society, they need to contribute
>> to it.  I think that's a standard everyone, liberal or conservative, will
>> support.  Otherwise how can they respect themselves?  Maybe they don't, and
>> that's their basic problem.
>>
>
> Ah, the wise white man thinks he understands the problem and has a fix.
> Hallelujah!
>
> I agree with no reparations: black, Indians, anyone.  This reminds me of
>> original sin, the idea that Adam and Eve sunk all the rest of us by their
>> disobedience.  Humbug.  I am not responsible for what my ancestors did, and
>> the offspring of the victims are not harmed by what was done to their
>> ancestors.
>>
>
> I agree that we aren't responsible for what our ancestors did but I
> absolutely disagree that that natives today were not harmed by that.
> They've lost most of their culture and are forced to live on land that
> can't really support life.
>
> Help people get on their feet, and THEN leave them alone.
>>
>
> I say that it's OK to help them is they ask for help. It's not OK to
> presume to know what they and force it on them. That's the "leave them
> alone" part.
>
> -Dave
>
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