[ExI] de Waal

Sat Mar 3 15:32:26 UTC 2018

By the teen years they no longer take it for granted that what adults tell
them is true, but by then its too late, the damage has been done and they
will believe ridiculous religious crap for the rest of their life without
question. And they will teach the exact same bullshit to their children.
john

I think this is seriously mistaken - no , just flat wrong.  However, I am
no longer interested enough in this conversation to do the research to
prove this very wrong, though if you are, and you get data supporting this
extremist view, I will be happy to read it.  Not exactly a proponent of
free will, are you?

bill w.

On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 9:29 AM, William Flynn Wallace <foozler83 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> By the teen years they no longer take it for granted that what adults tell
> them is true, but by then its too late, the damage has been done and they
> will believe ridiculous religious crap for the rest of their life without
> question. And they will teach the exact same bullshit to their children.
> john
>
> On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 1:56 PM, William Flynn Wallace <foozler83 at gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 1:33 PM, John Clark <johnkclark at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 12:18 PM, William Flynn Wallace <
>>> foozler83 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >* you did not react to my statement that Muslim terrorists were a very
>>>> tiny part of the Muslim world,*
>>>
>>> Then I will do so now. Most Muslims are not terrorists but most
>>> terrorists are Muslims. Yes, active terrorists make up a small percentage
>>> of the Muslim world, but the percentage that are terrorist enablers and
>>> sympathizers is not small at all, it approaches a majority in many
>>> countries.
>>>
>>
>> I can agree with that.  bill w
>>
>> *> no matter what people say on surveys. *
>>>
>>> So what are you saying, you already know the truth and don't want to be
>>> confused by the facts?
>>>   john
>>>
>>> What?  I do know what people say on surveys is often a response
>> calculated to impress the reader that the surveyed person is conforming
>> with his culture.  That may, or may NOT, be the case with the Muslim
>> surveys, but given the pressure and the penalties to conform, I'd be very
>> suspect of drawing major conclusion from that kind of data.  Not to toss it
>> out - just to be suspicious of it.  bill w
>>
>>
>>
>>> I don’t understand why so many people feel it is their duty to perform
>>> logical contortions if that’s what it takes to avoid criticizing
>>> religion. You’re free to criticize a person's politics or their knowledge
>>> or their intelligence or their personality or even their personal hygiene,
>>> but don’t dare criticize their religion, if you do then that means you're a
>>> bad person. I don’t get it.
>>> JOhn
>>>
>>>
>> I wonder if you are talking about me.  The closest person I know who has
>> opinions like mine on religion is Christopher Hitchens, and I don't mind
>> airing my opinions anywhere.  bill w
>>
>>> 
>>> As I’ve said over and over, not a tendency to obey adults but a tendency
>>> to believe what they say is true, especially in things involving morality
>>> and general philosophy
>>> john
>>>
>>>
>> Are you saying that a tendency to believe moral things is different
>> from, say, what parents tell them about music or using the microwave?  If
>> you are, that could be true, as those things are more important in a way.
>> But I also say that changes to what parents taught is rampant, starting in
>> teen years, and continued in college dorm discussions.  bill w
>>
>>> And how can very young children learn if they don’t believe anything
>>> adults tell them?
>>>   John
>>>
>>>
>> I never said that.  Perhaps things like that are put in memory, and
>> maybe tentatively believed, or maybe stored as the default, and taken out
>> when supportive or contradictory opinions are expressed and examined. bill
>> w
>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> =======================  will respond to the below later  bill w
>>
>>
>>
>>>  * > What do tots and teens think when their parents disagree?  *
>>>
>>> Historically it was pretty rare for parents to disagree about religion,
>>> in fact historically disagreements by anybody over anything religious were
>>> illegal.
>>>
>>>> *>  Peers, while one is a teen, outrank everybody, despite the clear
>>>> fact that one's peers often don't know any more than the person does, and
>>>> is very often wrong *
>>>
>>> The type of learning I’m talking about now isn’t about learning facts,
>>> its about learning opinions and values and a philosophy of life.
>>>
>>>> *> If there is any genetic tendency to hear and obey parents, it's
>>>> mostly gone by the teen years.*
>>>
>>> By the teen years they no longer take it for granted that what adults
>>> tell them is true, but by then its too late, the damage has been done and
>>> they will believe ridiculous religious crap for the rest of their life
>>> without question. And they will teach the exact same bullshit to their
>>> children.
>>>
>>>> *> What does a person say when he is asked, or asks himself, just who
>>>> he is?  Religions affiliation is usually noted, if not first, then, shortly
>>>> thereafter. *
>>>
>>> I know, people are put (or they put themselves) into categories
>>> depending on religious franchise, and that melancholy fact has cause more
>>> misery in the world than anything else except for death itself.
>>>
>>>   
>>> John K Clark
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> extropy-chat mailing list
>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
>>> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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