[ExI] privacy

Dave Sill sparge at gmail.com
Mon Mar 26 13:29:26 UTC 2018


On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 11:44 AM, William Flynn Wallace <foozler83 at gmail.com
> wrote:

> Popular topic now - Fbook etc.  Just what do we want?  I'll ask a bunch of
> libertarians and the like.
>
> Google has a program that, without exactly invading privacy, can predict
> flu epidemics, based on word usage  - headache, fever, etc. appearing in
> emails.   If these words appear far more frequently in a place than is
> usual, the Center for Disease Control could be contacted and informed of a
> possible epidemic.   I say this is highly useful data.  We could use a
> lot more of it for medical purposes, if nothing else.
>

I don't think there's anything preventing them from doing that. People who
want to opt out of that can use a different email provider.

People are going to get targeted for ads, whether through Fbook likes or
> something else (massive data in Amazon about who buys what).  Hey!  It's
> capitalism in action.  Companies that support the TV programs, web sites,
> and so on are not doing out of kindness and generosity.
>

If you're using a "free" service, advertisements are the price you pay.
Google and FB learn a lot about you and target those ads, but that's not
the only way that ad-supported services work. I've replaced Google Search
with DuckDuckGo <https://duckduckgo.com> because it doesn't doesn't collect
or share personal information. Their ads are based on your search terms.

If insurance companies get our health records, there will be hell to pay -
> right?  So we don't want that, unless someone is keeping a foot on the
> companies' throats.  Meaning not now.
>

I'm not sure in what sense my health insurance provider doesn't have my
health records since they see every claim and prescription that's filed.

But it seems to me that I really don't want privacy except for health
> matters, and mostly not even that, if my data can help others' health in
> some way.  What will happen?  I will  get ads that are more like what I
> might want.  Now I get ads trying to sell me things I have already bought -
> hardly a good thing from the ad placer's point of view.
>

That's perfectly fine as long as that's a decision you knowingly make.
Other people want more privacy and they should be able to get it. Sure,
people can opt out of using Facebook...if they don't mind giving up the
most popular medium for staying in touch with friends and family.

So, some kind of compromise is needed here.  Total privacy will make goods
> and services more costly because the companies won't have the data to more
> correctly target consumers.
>

Again, consensual exchange of personal information for a service is OK, but
it can't be mandated and we *really* need laws that protect personal
information and enforce stiff penalties for violations. Zuckerberg saying
"Oops, sorry." isn't enough.

Maybe there could be some national web site where I could go and tell
> advertisers what I do and do not want.  I am never going to buy a new car -
> ever.  So don't waste your ads on me.  It does cost them, right? Sending
> ads to people who won't use them drives up the prices of goods and services.
>

Advertisers could easily set up such a web site. They probably don't think
it would be beneficial to them.

The implications are far and wide and I have covered only a few.  I say
> that there can be, as in the Google example above, valid and reasonable
> uses of consumer data, and we should act to put regulations in place so
> that there is a fair amount of data sharing and a fair amount of privacy.
>
> Once it can be shown that forgoing some privacy helps millions of people
> and /or lowers consumer prices, I think people will  share some things.
>
> OK, guys and dolls - unpack this and hack it.
>

Only consensual sharing is possible. If it's not consensual, it's not
sharing, it's surveillance. You may trust the data collectors to use it
wisely but that doesn't mean everyone does.

-Dave
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