William Flynn Wallace
foozler83 at gmail.com
Fri Oct 26 21:42:27 UTC 2018
And it’s not like children are raised in a gender neutral environment until
they’re 12. The socialization process starts at birth. dan
Curiously, it begins before that. You will read or hear of this nowhere
else, as it comes directly out of my head.
The fetus can hear, at some point. And can hear his mother quite well, and
environmental sounds pretty well, as fluid carries sound much better than
So what does the fetus hear? Probably about as much as Mama hears. But a
sort of imprinting occurs, and the infant will be partial to Mama's voice
and those like hers, and those will typically be other women. Men with
their lower voices are more unfamiliar and with the baby's 'instincts' they
are to be suspected. This would be reinforced greatly if men around the
mother shouted at her, or just shouted. Loud noises, along with loss of
support, are the only two inherited fears. Loud noise coupled with males'
voices and you have a learned fear occurring before birth.
If I am right, this could carry on into adulthood and may even be
permanent. Results? Men are more feared than women, and of course other
factors support this idea, as most violence comes from boys and men.
What else, you say? Teens' choice of music may be affected. Nearly all
boy rock stars have high voices or use the upper part of the voice in their
songs. Even in opera the good guys are the tenors and the bad guys the
bassos. Few men's popular music voices are deep.
I am willing to leave this topic with this idea: I don't trust and
therefore don't believe anyone on the topic of sex and gender who is not in
some scientific field relating to the study of those topics. Too much
politics here; too much bias. Too many opinions and too little data.
Most things here will never be effectively proven because we ethically
cannot do the studies necessary to assign values to nature and nurture.
For my money it's 50/50 at best and when not that, genetics is stronger and
genetics is guiding what learning is occurring. Prepared learning, some
On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 2:42 PM Dan TheBookMan <danust2012 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 26, 2018, at 12:18 PM, SR Ballard <sen.otaku at gmail.com> wrote:
> I think it would take extreme environments to alter the power of genetics.
> bill w
> I’m not saying genetics have no power, I’m asking how much power they have
> in relation to environment. Is environment 10%? 25%? I sincerely doubt it
> would be near or above 50% actually.
> And further, what counts as “extreme”? Sexual assault? Child abuse? PTSD?
> They are honestly pretty common it seems.
> And it’s not like children are raised in a gender neutral environment
> until they’re 12. The socialization process starts at birth.
> By the way, two professors who write quite reasonably on gender issues are
> Anne Fausto-Sterling (_Sex/Gender: Biology in a Social World_) and Caroline
> Fine (_Testosterone Rex_).
> Libertarians all too often end up being bio-essentialists (and
> conservative ones at that) on this issue. But there are a growing number of
> libertarians who take what I believe to be a better approach to gender. See:
> and, if you have time,
> Sample my Kindle books at:
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
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