[ExI] Chalmers

[Will Steinberg]

Happy to see ExI posting about consciousness in any case!  I almost made a
post the other day about the Searle's Chinese Room; I'll finish it one of
these days

On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 7:33 PM Will Steinberg <steinberg.will at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I am a dualist but I don't think consciousness is an illusion.  That's
> sort of a nebulous statement in any case.  Like saying gravity is an
> illusion.  Doesn't mean we don't have to deal with it.
>
> By the way I think it was I who said something akin to Chalmers being my
> favorite, but if he says consciousness is an illusion then I may have to
> rescind that.  I can't find anything like that though so I would certainly
> appreciate a link to the article.  I always thought he was
> anti-eliminativist.
>
> On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 6:55 PM William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>> The question I'd love to ask Mr.Chalmers is, how would things be
>> different if consciousness were NOT an illusion  john clark
>>
>> I think that's kinda my question.  If it is an illusion, then what is the
>> real thing?  What is it that is being distorted?  Many years ago I heard
>> that philosophers had argued about how many angels could dance on the head
>> of a pin.  It was presented as a true story, which I really doubted at the
>> time.  Now I know that even if it were not a true story it could easily
>> have been true.  Perhaps it is philosophy itself is an illusion and what is
>> being distorted is reality, which they cannot seem to admit exists.  What a
>> way to get tenure and a cushy job.
>>
>> bill w
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 4:52 PM John Clark via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 5:13 PM William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <
>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> > *Someone in an earlier post, said that he was their favorite
>>>> philosopher.  I see in a recent Aeon article that he thinks consciousness
>>>> is an illusion*
>>>>
>>>
>>> The question I'd love to ask Mr.Chalmers is, how would things be
>>> different if consciousness were NOT an illusion?
>>>
>>> > *and is a dualist.*
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'm not so interested in that, I'm not big into dangerous sports and
>>> know little about swords or pistols.
>>>
>>> *> In the same article it seems that the terms 'sensation and
>>>> perception' are no longer used, in favor of 'access consciousness' and
>>>> 'phenomenal consciousness'.  How are these terms any improvement*
>>>
>>>
>>> They aren't.
>>>
>>>  > *other than to get further away from the common person's
>>>> understanding?  ("Have to be esoteric or people will think we are full of
>>>> shit."  which possibly they are)*
>>>
>>>
>>> Of course they're full of shit that's why philosophers love to talk
>>> about consciousness but rarely talk about intelligence. It's really really
>>> hard to come up with a good intelligence theory and really easy to tell if
>>> it's full of shit or not, but the exact opposite is true when it comes to
>>> consciousness theories; it's easy for anybody to come up with one in two
>>> seconds because there are no facts it must fit, and therefore there is no
>>> way to prove the idea is full of shit which is a very good thing if you
>>> really are full of shit.
>>>
>>>  John K Clark
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>
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