[ExI] Chalmers

[Will Steinberg]

I am a dualist but I don't think consciousness is an illusion.  That's sort
of a nebulous statement in any case.  Like saying gravity is an illusion.
Doesn't mean we don't have to deal with it.

By the way I think it was I who said something akin to Chalmers being my
favorite, but if he says consciousness is an illusion then I may have to
rescind that.  I can't find anything like that though so I would certainly
appreciate a link to the article.  I always thought he was
anti-eliminativist.

On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 6:55 PM William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> The question I'd love to ask Mr.Chalmers is, how would things be different
> if consciousness were NOT an illusion  john clark
>
> I think that's kinda my question.  If it is an illusion, then what is the
> real thing?  What is it that is being distorted?  Many years ago I heard
> that philosophers had argued about how many angels could dance on the head
> of a pin.  It was presented as a true story, which I really doubted at the
> time.  Now I know that even if it were not a true story it could easily
> have been true.  Perhaps it is philosophy itself is an illusion and what is
> being distorted is reality, which they cannot seem to admit exists.  What a
> way to get tenure and a cushy job.
>
> bill w
>
> On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 4:52 PM John Clark via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 5:13 PM William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>
>> > *Someone in an earlier post, said that he was their favorite
>>> philosopher.  I see in a recent Aeon article that he thinks consciousness
>>> is an illusion*
>>>
>>
>> The question I'd love to ask Mr.Chalmers is, how would things be
>> different if consciousness were NOT an illusion?
>>
>> > *and is a dualist.*
>>>
>>
>> I'm not so interested in that, I'm not big into dangerous sports and know
>> little about swords or pistols.
>>
>> *> In the same article it seems that the terms 'sensation and perception'
>>> are no longer used, in favor of 'access consciousness' and 'phenomenal
>>> consciousness'.  How are these terms any improvement*
>>
>>
>> They aren't.
>>
>>  > *other than to get further away from the common person's
>>> understanding?  ("Have to be esoteric or people will think we are full of
>>> shit."  which possibly they are)*
>>
>>
>> Of course they're full of shit that's why philosophers love to talk about
>> consciousness but rarely talk about intelligence. It's really really hard
>> to come up with a good intelligence theory and really easy to tell if it's
>> full of shit or not, but the exact opposite is true when it comes to
>> consciousness theories; it's easy for anybody to come up with one in two
>> seconds because there are no facts it must fit, and therefore there is no
>> way to prove the idea is full of shit which is a very good thing if you
>> really are full of shit.
>>
>>  John K Clark
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