[ExI] Rapamycin-like drug for anti-aging?

[Dylan Distasio]

Hi Bill-

I probably should have been more clear with my terminology as I was
speaking casually with my terms :-).   I'll respond to your questions and
provide some additional background.

Rapamycin is a drug, not a supplement which is its own can of worms
unfortunately.  It has an extremely interesting history IMO, as the basis
of it comes from a microorganism discovered in the soil of Easter Island.
It's one of these serendipitous scientific discoveries.   It eventually
went on to be commercialized and used as part of an immune suppressing
cocktail in organ transplant patients.   It may seem paradoxical to be
talking about using an immune suppressor to fight aging and improve the
immune response, but like many drugs, it's all about dosing.

At high daily levels of intake, rapamycin will suppress the immune system.
 At lower, less frequent doses, it does not have the same effects.   As a
result, people experimenting with it for life extension/healthspan purposes
generally take a dose once a week that a patient taking it for
immunosuppression would be taking daily.   Rapamycin has a half live of
around 72 hours so even taking it once a week will result in multi day
benefits in theory.   That's what I meant by pulsing.  I only take it once
a week.

If you're interested in exploring the biochemistry angle, reading up on
mTOR is the best starting point.  mTOR stands for mammalian (or
mechanistic) Target of Rapamycin.  It's the complex that rapamycin (and
metformin through a different spot in the pathway) interact with.   mTOR is
heavily involved in nutrient sensing and figuring out if you are well fed
or starving.   At the risk of oversimplification, rapamycin/metformin
potentially trick your body into activating a lot of beneficial pathways
that are activated when the body senses we are not getting enough
calories.  It's the same idea behind calorie restriction advocates who IMO
lead a difficult lifestyle that I'm not interested in.   I won't got
further into mTORC1 versus mTORC2 other than to say again that the idea
behind taking a single dose weekly is to get the good effects from mTOR
inhibitors like rapamycin while minimizing the bad ones.

So back to the drug angle...While it is possible to get rapamycin in bulk
from Chinese manufacturers, I would NOT recommend this.  Beyond having to
go through the hassle of getting a third party to provide purity analysis
(which I consider mandatory), the dosing is in low milligrams which makes
it more difficult to measure.   Anyways, you may also find some sellers
online that will do it without a prescription but I don't recommend that
route either.

If you are interested in trying it, I would recommend checking out the
website of Dr. Alan Green at https://rapamycintherapy.com/.   He was a
retired physician who is around your age (slightly older now I believe) who
was experiencing a lot of negative aging effects including what he
diagnosed as an enlarged heart.  He was getting winded walking the dog up a
neighborhood hill and decided to research aging remedies in the
literature.   He came across rapamycin (and metformin) as potential
therapies, and to cut to the chase, spent a year+ self experimenting with
rapamycin.  Anecdotally, he had great improvements in his cardiac profile
(rapamycin is known to improve the effects he was experiencing in dogs),
and felt better overall.   He then decided to reopen a practice for
rapamycin (and potentially metformin) therapy so people could actually get
an off label prescription for rapamycin.

In theory, you could get your own physician to write you a prescription for
rapamycin but I think you will find they don't know anything about the
drug, and if they quickly look it up, they will think you are crazy in
asking for an immunosuppressor which is the on label use.   If they are
open to learning and not gunshy, you might be able to convince them to give
it to you off label.

In my case, I went to see Dr. Green because I am in his geographic area.
He charges a very reasonable fee, will respond to follow up questions, and
was a really nice guy in person.  I spent most of an afternoon chatting
with him during our consult.   He is old school and will not attempt to put
stuff through insurance (which would likely deny it anyways, but you could
try on your own).

If you do decide you want to experiment with it, and find a prescription, I
would recommend you also download the GoodRx app or something similar.
It's great for any meds not covered by insurance FYI and I strongly suggest
checking it out.  It will give you substantial discounts on most meds
including rapamycin and make the cost a lot more manageable.   You are
probably looking at around $1200 for a year's supply of rapamycin with the
discount.

An alternative to rapamycin that would be easier to procure, is very cheap,
and generally very well tolerated would be metformin.   It is in the same
ballpark in terms of suppressing mTOR but without getting into the details
may not be as effective while still providing many benefits.   Metformin
would probably cost you a few dollars for a 90 day supply as it is generic
and cheap.  If you do go with metformin, please supplement B12 as it can
affect your ability to absorb it in the gut long term.

I also want to say that it should go without saying, I'm not a doc or
giving medical advice, and while I believe both of these drugs are safe
when used properly, I am shooting in the dark here along with everyone else
self experimenting and there are risks, and you should do a lot of your own
due diligence before making a decision.

I'm happy to answer any additional questions to the best of my ability if
you decide to go down the rabbit hole though.

On Sun, Sep 8, 2019 at 11:08 AM William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> > I've been pulsing rapamycin for close to a year with no noticeable side
> effects. Taken once weekly, the idea is it maximizes hitting mTORC1 and
> minimizes hitting mTORC2.   The literature indicates the anti aging effects
> are from the former and the negative side effects from the latter.  dylan
>
> I Googled all these terms and determined that I needed a couple of course
> in biochemistry.  first, what does 'pulsing' mean?  Ditto 'hitting'.
> Second, where did you get your supplement?
>
> I am 77, in pretty good health, and practically never have any side
> effects of anything, so maybe I am a good candidate for this rapamycin.
> Please tell me all you can.
>
> Thanks!   bill w
>
>
>
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