[ExI] Rapamycin-like drug for anti-aging?

Sun Sep 8 16:51:51 UTC 2019

Many thanks.  I assume you got my email, sent to the group, which included
the web site of your doctor.  So I read it all.  I am already on metformin
for very borderline diabetes II.

I emailed your doctor and we'll see what he says.  I found Rapamune on
Wikipedia and it seems to be the one we are talking about - about $150 a
month with discount.  will also ask my pharmacist.  The prescription is for
30 pills, but you say take it once a week, eh?  So it really isn't $150 a
month unless you are taking 30 pills once a week!!

bill w

On Sun, Sep 8, 2019 at 10:54 AM Dylan Distasio via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> Hi Bill-
>
> I probably should have been more clear with my terminology as I was
> speaking casually with my terms :-).   I'll respond to your questions and
> provide some additional background.
>
> Rapamycin is a drug, not a supplement which is its own can of worms
> unfortunately.  It has an extremely interesting history IMO, as the basis
> of it comes from a microorganism discovered in the soil of Easter Island.
> It's one of these serendipitous scientific discoveries.   It eventually
> went on to be commercialized and used as part of an immune suppressing
> cocktail in organ transplant patients.   It may seem paradoxical to be
> talking about using an immune suppressor to fight aging and improve the
> immune response, but like many drugs, it's all about dosing.
>
> At high daily levels of intake, rapamycin will suppress the immune
> system.   At lower, less frequent doses, it does not have the same
> effects.   As a result, people experimenting with it for life
> extension/healthspan purposes generally take a dose once a week that a
> patient taking it for immunosuppression would be taking daily.   Rapamycin
> has a half live of around 72 hours so even taking it once a week will
> result in multi day benefits in theory.   That's what I meant by pulsing.
> I only take it once a week.
>
> If you're interested in exploring the biochemistry angle, reading up on
> mTOR is the best starting point.  mTOR stands for mammalian (or
> mechanistic) Target of Rapamycin.  It's the complex that rapamycin (and
> metformin through a different spot in the pathway) interact with.   mTOR is
> heavily involved in nutrient sensing and figuring out if you are well fed
> or starving.   At the risk of oversimplification, rapamycin/metformin
> potentially trick your body into activating a lot of beneficial pathways
> that are activated when the body senses we are not getting enough
> calories.  It's the same idea behind calorie restriction advocates who IMO
> lead a difficult lifestyle that I'm not interested in.   I won't got
> further into mTORC1 versus mTORC2 other than to say again that the idea
> behind taking a single dose weekly is to get the good effects from mTOR
> inhibitors like rapamycin while minimizing the bad ones.
>
> So back to the drug angle...While it is possible to get rapamycin in bulk
> from Chinese manufacturers, I would NOT recommend this.  Beyond having to
> go through the hassle of getting a third party to provide purity analysis
> (which I consider mandatory), the dosing is in low milligrams which makes
> it more difficult to measure.   Anyways, you may also find some sellers
> online that will do it without a prescription but I don't recommend that
> route either.
>
> If you are interested in trying it, I would recommend checking out the
> website of Dr. Alan Green at https://rapamycintherapy.com/.   He was a
> retired physician who is around your age (slightly older now I believe) who
> was experiencing a lot of negative aging effects including what he
> diagnosed as an enlarged heart.  He was getting winded walking the dog up a
> neighborhood hill and decided to research aging remedies in the
> literature.   He came across rapamycin (and metformin) as potential
> therapies, and to cut to the chase, spent a year+ self experimenting with
> rapamycin.  Anecdotally, he had great improvements in his cardiac profile
> (rapamycin is known to improve the effects he was experiencing in dogs),
> and felt better overall.   He then decided to reopen a practice for
> rapamycin (and potentially metformin) therapy so people could actually get
> an off label prescription for rapamycin.
>
> In theory, you could get your own physician to write you a prescription
> for rapamycin but I think you will find they don't know anything about the
> drug, and if they quickly look it up, they will think you are crazy in
> asking for an immunosuppressor which is the on label use.   If they are
> open to learning and not gunshy, you might be able to convince them to give
> it to you off label.
>
> In my case, I went to see Dr. Green because I am in his geographic area.
> He charges a very reasonable fee, will respond to follow up questions, and
> was a really nice guy in person.  I spent most of an afternoon chatting
> with him during our consult.   He is old school and will not attempt to put
> stuff through insurance (which would likely deny it anyways, but you could
> try on your own).
>
> If you do decide you want to experiment with it, and find a prescription,
> I would recommend you also download the GoodRx app or something similar.
> It's great for any meds not covered by insurance FYI and I strongly suggest
> checking it out.  It will give you substantial discounts on most meds
> including rapamycin and make the cost a lot more manageable.   You are
> probably looking at around $1200 for a year's supply of rapamycin with the
> discount.
>
> An alternative to rapamycin that would be easier to procure, is very
> cheap, and generally very well tolerated would be metformin.   It is in the
> same ballpark in terms of suppressing mTOR but without getting into the
> details may not be as effective while still providing many benefits.
>  Metformin would probably cost you a few dollars for a 90 day supply as it
> is generic and cheap.  If you do go with metformin, please supplement B12
> as it can affect your ability to absorb it in the gut long term.
>
> I also want to say that it should go without saying, I'm not a doc or
> giving medical advice, and while I believe both of these drugs are safe
> when used properly, I am shooting in the dark here along with everyone else
> self experimenting and there are risks, and you should do a lot of your own
> due diligence before making a decision.
>
> I'm happy to answer any additional questions to the best of my ability if
> you decide to go down the rabbit hole though.
>
> On Sun, Sep 8, 2019 at 11:08 AM William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>> > I've been pulsing rapamycin for close to a year with no noticeable side
>> effects. Taken once weekly, the idea is it maximizes hitting mTORC1 and
>> minimizes hitting mTORC2.   The literature indicates the anti aging effects
>> are from the former and the negative side effects from the latter.  dylan
>>
>> I Googled all these terms and determined that I needed a couple of course
>> in biochemistry.  first, what does 'pulsing' mean?  Ditto 'hitting'.
>> Second, where did you get your supplement?
>>
>> I am 77, in pretty good health, and practically never have any side
>> effects of anything, so maybe I am a good candidate for this rapamycin.
>> Please tell me all you can.
>>
>> Thanks!   bill w
>>
>>
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