[ExI] Rapamycin-like drug for anti-aging?

Sun Sep 8 17:10:56 UTC 2019

Quite welcome.  I did see your reference after I responded.   I take 6mg
rapamycin once a week FYI.

On Sun, Sep 8, 2019, 12:55 PM William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> Many thanks.  I assume you got my email, sent to the group, which included
> the web site of your doctor.  So I read it all.  I am already on metformin
> for very borderline diabetes II.
>
> I emailed your doctor and we'll see what he says.  I found Rapamune on
> Wikipedia and it seems to be the one we are talking about - about $150 a
> month with discount.  will also ask my pharmacist.  The prescription is for
> 30 pills, but you say take it once a week, eh?  So it really isn't $150 a
> month unless you are taking 30 pills once a week!!
>
> bill w
>
> On Sun, Sep 8, 2019 at 10:54 AM Dylan Distasio via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi Bill-
>>
>> I probably should have been more clear with my terminology as I was
>> speaking casually with my terms :-).   I'll respond to your questions and
>> provide some additional background.
>>
>> Rapamycin is a drug, not a supplement which is its own can of worms
>> unfortunately.  It has an extremely interesting history IMO, as the basis
>> of it comes from a microorganism discovered in the soil of Easter Island.
>> It's one of these serendipitous scientific discoveries.   It eventually
>> went on to be commercialized and used as part of an immune suppressing
>> cocktail in organ transplant patients.   It may seem paradoxical to be
>> talking about using an immune suppressor to fight aging and improve the
>> immune response, but like many drugs, it's all about dosing.
>>
>> At high daily levels of intake, rapamycin will suppress the immune
>> system.   At lower, less frequent doses, it does not have the same
>> effects.   As a result, people experimenting with it for life
>> extension/healthspan purposes generally take a dose once a week that a
>> patient taking it for immunosuppression would be taking daily.   Rapamycin
>> has a half live of around 72 hours so even taking it once a week will
>> result in multi day benefits in theory.   That's what I meant by pulsing.
>> I only take it once a week.
>>
>> If you're interested in exploring the biochemistry angle, reading up on
>> mTOR is the best starting point.  mTOR stands for mammalian (or
>> mechanistic) Target of Rapamycin.  It's the complex that rapamycin (and
>> metformin through a different spot in the pathway) interact with.   mTOR is
>> heavily involved in nutrient sensing and figuring out if you are well fed
>> or starving.   At the risk of oversimplification, rapamycin/metformin
>> potentially trick your body into activating a lot of beneficial pathways
>> that are activated when the body senses we are not getting enough
>> calories.  It's the same idea behind calorie restriction advocates who IMO
>> lead a difficult lifestyle that I'm not interested in.   I won't got
>> further into mTORC1 versus mTORC2 other than to say again that the idea
>> behind taking a single dose weekly is to get the good effects from mTOR
>> inhibitors like rapamycin while minimizing the bad ones.
>>
>> So back to the drug angle...While it is possible to get rapamycin in bulk
>> from Chinese manufacturers, I would NOT recommend this.  Beyond having to
>> go through the hassle of getting a third party to provide purity analysis
>> (which I consider mandatory), the dosing is in low milligrams which makes
>> it more difficult to measure.   Anyways, you may also find some sellers
>> online that will do it without a prescription but I don't recommend that
>> route either.
>>
>> If you are interested in trying it, I would recommend checking out the
>> website of Dr. Alan Green at https://rapamycintherapy.com/.   He was a
>> retired physician who is around your age (slightly older now I believe) who
>> was experiencing a lot of negative aging effects including what he
>> diagnosed as an enlarged heart.  He was getting winded walking the dog up a
>> neighborhood hill and decided to research aging remedies in the
>> literature.   He came across rapamycin (and metformin) as potential
>> therapies, and to cut to the chase, spent a year+ self experimenting with
>> rapamycin.  Anecdotally, he had great improvements in his cardiac profile
>> (rapamycin is known to improve the effects he was experiencing in dogs),
>> and felt better overall.   He then decided to reopen a practice for
>> rapamycin (and potentially metformin) therapy so people could actually get
>> an off label prescription for rapamycin.
>>
>> In theory, you could get your own physician to write you a prescription
>> for rapamycin but I think you will find they don't know anything about the
>> drug, and if they quickly look it up, they will think you are crazy in
>> asking for an immunosuppressor which is the on label use.   If they are
>> open to learning and not gunshy, you might be able to convince them to give
>> it to you off label.
>>
>> In my case, I went to see Dr. Green because I am in his geographic area.
>> He charges a very reasonable fee, will respond to follow up questions, and
>> was a really nice guy in person.  I spent most of an afternoon chatting
>> with him during our consult.   He is old school and will not attempt to put
>> stuff through insurance (which would likely deny it anyways, but you could
>> try on your own).
>>
>> If you do decide you want to experiment with it, and find a prescription,
>> I would recommend you also download the GoodRx app or something similar.
>> It's great for any meds not covered by insurance FYI and I strongly suggest
>> checking it out.  It will give you substantial discounts on most meds
>> including rapamycin and make the cost a lot more manageable.   You are
>> probably looking at around $1200 for a year's supply of rapamycin with the
>> discount.
>>
>> An alternative to rapamycin that would be easier to procure, is very
>> cheap, and generally very well tolerated would be metformin.   It is in the
>> same ballpark in terms of suppressing mTOR but without getting into the
>> details may not be as effective while still providing many benefits.
>>  Metformin would probably cost you a few dollars for a 90 day supply as it
>> is generic and cheap.  If you do go with metformin, please supplement B12
>> as it can affect your ability to absorb it in the gut long term.
>>
>> I also want to say that it should go without saying, I'm not a doc or
>> giving medical advice, and while I believe both of these drugs are safe
>> when used properly, I am shooting in the dark here along with everyone else
>> self experimenting and there are risks, and you should do a lot of your own
>> due diligence before making a decision.
>>
>> I'm happy to answer any additional questions to the best of my ability if
>> you decide to go down the rabbit hole though.
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 8, 2019 at 11:08 AM William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>
>>> > I've been pulsing rapamycin for close to a year with no noticeable
>>> side effects. Taken once weekly, the idea is it maximizes hitting mTORC1
>>> and minimizes hitting mTORC2.   The literature indicates the anti aging
>>> effects are from the former and the negative side effects from the latter.
>>> dylan
>>>
>>> I Googled all these terms and determined that I needed a couple of
>>> course in biochemistry.  first, what does 'pulsing' mean?  Ditto
>>> 'hitting'.  Second, where did you get your supplement?
>>>
>>> I am 77, in pretty good health, and practically never have any side
>>> effects of anything, so maybe I am a good candidate for this rapamycin.
>>> Please tell me all you can.
>>>
>>> Thanks!   bill w
>>>
>>>
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