[ExI] it's your choice

David McFadzean davidmc at gmail.com
Sat Apr 4 14:58:01 UTC 2020

Keith Henson via extropy-chat

>> But most of us have ancestors from all over.

> If you intend "us* to mean humans, I doubt it.  The vast majority of
> Chinese are not of mixed origin.  Neither are most of the Europeans.

You may be surprised to learn that the identical ancestors point is only
5000-15000 years ago.


On Fri, Apr 3, 2020 at 10:59 PM Keith Henson via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> <spike at rainier66.com> wrote:
> > Keith, sensa huma, me lad.
> Some of this stuff is *not* funny.
> > We know how race is used in our modern world,
> but at some point we must recognize that we moderns are in a rather absurd
> situation where gender is a choice but race is not.
> Gender reassignment (Christine Jorgensen) has been a reality since I
> was ten years old.  As you point out, it does not change whatever sex
> chromosomes a person has.
> > Clearly everyone is a mixture of races.
> Only if you completely ignore the definition of the word.
> "A race is a grouping of humans based on shared physical or social
> qualities into categories generally viewed as distinct by society."
> (Wikipedia)
> Races came about from the common selection of a group over a long
> enough time for certain patterns of genes to become common.  In some
> cases, the groups have existed for 200,000 years or more.
> And everyone is *not* a mix of present-day races.
> > That one really is ambiguous.  A few of us (perhaps a
> tenth of a percent) are genetically ambiguous gender (trisomy or ring
> chromosome 13) but for everyone else, it is either XX or XY.
> You left out 47,XXX, 47,XXY, 47,XYY and 48,XXYY plus some other rare cases.
> > But most of us have ancestors from all over.
> If you intend "us* to mean humans, I doubt it.  The vast majority of
> Chinese are not of mixed origin.  Neither are most of the Europeans.
> That's is a US pattern and more generally places the Europeans
> (particularly the northwest Europeans) colonized.  You might note that
> the Europeans did not do well in the tropics.  They were selected for
> other characteristics than parasite resistance.
> > If you do just the 60 dollar
> DNA test, you can see that, and if you have a friend interested in this
> sorta thing, you can find out all kindsa cool stuff, including. most of us
> are a mixture of what we are now calling races, which are multiplying daily
> it seems.
> 23andMe claims that I am 100% whitebread.  Big deal.  I clearly lack
> the genes to accumulate wealth.
> > So now we are in a society where men can compete in womens' sports,
> where gender is a choice but one cannot change by choice from one's
> assigned race?  Indeed?  Of course we can.  Anything represented anywhere
> in our DNA is among our choices.  I know of no rule that specifies we are
> always stuck
> with the majority race found in our DNA, and know examples where
> people have been assigned against their will to a trace of their DNA
> content.
> You cannot change your parents, grandparents, great grandparents, etc.
> Where you came from is significant because in some places (northwest
> Europe, China, Japan) there has been substantial selection for the
> characteristics that made them able to host the industrial revolution
> and (for a while) dominate the world.  Read Clark for the evidence
> that our UK ancestors were under intense selection for at least 400
> years.
> Clark points out that the selection pressures were really odd in the
> UK.  The "stable agrarian society" selected for a very different set
> of characteristics from places where parasite resistance was more
> important than literacy or impulse control.
> I was amazed to find that about 6000 genes (out of 20,000) are thought
> to be involved in RNA or DNA virus resistance.  Tropical parasite
> resistance might involve even more genes.
> > Are we really now in a place where gender is a choice but race is not?
> DNA gender is not a choice, neither are your parents or your genetic
> selection history.
> > I recommend that people do one of those DNA tests.
> They certainly do lead to some strange places.  For example, I am
> related to one Donald Funcannon through Nancy (born 1796), a sister of
> John Henson, my ggg grandfather.  Her life was interesting enough to
> have left tracks, including mixed-race children.  I should put more
> effort into finding some of the papers and perhaps more of her
> descendants.
> I think you mentioned your mixed-race ancestry was 5 generations back.
> I am more Neanderthal (different species!) than you are mixed from
> that event.  It would be silly, but I could claim to be Neanderthal to
> the same extent you are (fallaciously?) are claiming to be African.
> Keith
> PS.  If you project into the future far enough, then forget minor
> stuff like changing gender.  Changing species will be an option.
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