[ExI] More deaths from COVID-19 than Afghanistan and Iraq wars combined

Fri Apr 17 22:49:47 UTC 2020

Well, I misunderstood. I thought you were saying the citizens should have
arms so that they can resist the Government if they tried to abuse their
power…

 stathis

A lot of people think that way.  Some of the radical militias, such as
white supramacists, envision battling U S military trying to take over
their possessions, esp. their guns.

I think that if the U S gov. tried to reduce constitutional rights, there
would be a big march on Washington - millions of people, preferably
*without* weapons.

Guiness level sitins.  bill w

On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 4:48 PM Stathis Papaioannou via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 at 23:27, spike jones via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* extropy-chat <extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org> *On Behalf
>> Of *Stathis Papaioannou via extropy-chat
>> *…*
>> *Subject:* Re: [ExI] More deaths from COVID-19 than Afghanistan and Iraq
>> wars combined
>>
>>
>>
>> *On Behalf Of *Stathis Papaioannou via extropy-chat:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 at 11:17, spike jones via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>  >>…I notice a common notion among those who do not believe that a
>> militia is necessary to the security of the free state: they cannot fathom
>> a situation where the government cannot pay the soldiers and police.  They
>> cannot understand how a government would not be able to pay.  That isn’t
>> the least bit difficult for me to imagine, and hasn’t been for decades.
>> …What if… we try to re-open the economy, but every time we do, there is a
>> massive new outbreak, resulting in a new lockdown?  And what if that
>> continues?  For months?  What if longer than that?  Then businesses fail in
>> unison.  Tax revenues dwindle to nearly nothing.  Is that difficult to
>> imagine?
>>
>> …spike
>>
>>
>>
>> >…Well, I misunderstood. I thought you were saying the citizens should
>> have arms so that they can resist the Government if they tried to abuse
>> their power…
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Stathis,
>>
>>
>>
>> In the scenario easily envisioned, the government fails and isn’t really
>> in the picture.
>>
>>
>>
>> >…The only real power the Government has is through employees that can
>> use force, such as the police and the armed forces; surely you don’t
>> believe that Donald Trump himself will force his way into your home in
>> order to take the gold you have buried in the garden…
>>
>>
>>
>> No, governments abusing power would come in other forms besides breaking
>> into homes where there isn’t much to seize.  It would be in the form of
>> seizing 401Ks, bank accounts and retirement accounts.  Gold isn’t worth
>> much in these scenarios.  The currency of choice is food and ammo, but the
>> government already has plenty of that.
>>
>>
>>
>> >…Now you are talking about something quite different: what if the
>> Government cannot pay its employees? Then I suppose they will ask for
>> volunteers, or reintroduce the draft, which is essentially a form of
>> slavery…
>>
>>
>>
>> Draft: there would be no draft.  The Fed would need to furlough most of
>> the military it already employs.
>>
>>
>>
>> They don’t need to ask for volunteers, they already have them: the
>> militias.  The government doesn’t pay the militias, nor does it feed, arm
>> or clothe them.  They already thought of that and wrote it into the
>> constitution from the start, over 230 yrs ago.
>>
>>
>>
>> In 1789, the notion that the Federal government could go bankrupt was a
>> very real and present danger.  They needed a contingency plan, for their
>> finances back then were nearly as shaky and dubious as the US government’s
>> finances are today.
>>
>>
>>
>> (Well, OK that’s a bit of a stretch, but they were on some pretty shaky
>> ground back in the 1780s.)
>>
>>
>>
>> >…That would suck, but it would probably wouldn’t suck any less if there
>> were millions of people running around with guns. -- Stathis Papaioannou
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> In the USA, there are already millions of people running around with
>> guns; it has always been that way.  The best estimates are that there are
>> somewhere around 400 million guns in America.  Some of us have more than
>> one of course.  Those millions of people running around with guns are why
>> the US government hasn’t already seized more power than the Constitution
>> allows.
>>
> So you say, but is there any evidence of large numbers of Government
> officials who dream of increasing their power but haven’t done so due to a
> fear of citizens with guns? Some sort of survey, or even a series of
> anecdotes?
>
>> There are somewhere between 8 billion and 15 billion rounds of ammo sold
>> in the USA per year, and not all of that is fired.  Ammo tends to
>> accumulate, because it keeps forever (army surplus WW1 ammo still works
>> perfectly even though it is over 100 yrs old) and is an excellent reserve
>> currency (better than gold.)  Reasonable estimates suggest there are
>> perhaps half a trillion rounds of ammo in the US alone.  The NRA bumper
>> sticker has the ring of truth: if we were the problem, believe me, you
>> would know.
>>
>>
>>
>> spike
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
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>>
> --
> Stathis Papaioannou
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