[ExI] Who has a vote that counts?

William Flynn Wallace foozler83 at gmail.com
Sat Aug 1 13:51:59 UTC 2020

I did not bother to count the number of variables that have been mentioned
as causes of this and that.  But there are quite a few.  And they interact
all over the place.

But here's my thing:  I have physics envy.  I got out of clinical because
it wasn't very scientific at all.  My fields of social and personality do
quite a bit better, but nowhere near the standards of physics and
chemistry.  So I envy them.

Suppose you got a group of young people together and asked them about the
issues we are discussing here.  Society, parents, jobs, moving, etc. etc.
Suppose they came to some agreed-upon conclusions.  Would I regard any of
them as true?  No way.  What you have is a bunch of individual opinions
based on who knows what.  Anecdotal data - the very worst kind.  Sometimes
not only worthless but misleading.

Let's take helicopter parents.  I have to wonder:  just how many
parents,from the top to the bottom of society, know what this is or would
practice it if they did?  I have no idea.  Do you? Suppose that is
wide-spread and correlates with certain variables you think are responsible
for the ills and woes of younger people nowadays.  That's not causation.
Not even close.

Each one of us, like the blind men and elephant, can only testify to what
they are experiencing.

You  mention self-sufficient adults.  You are talking about adults now who
are many thousands of dollars in debt to Visa et al and mostly have no
retirement program at all - only SS.  Your parents are not providing role
models for effective and mature adults, because they themselves are not.

So I am not going to try to address each variable you mention.  If you put
them all in a computer and try to sort them out you might find some
interesting things. But to sort out variables from economics, psychology,
sociology, politics, finance, child-raising, culture idols, etc. in your
head - bah humbug.

No, I don't want anyone to research these things.  That's for a huge team
of experimenters, who in the end might have to rely on such wonderfully
scientific data as polling.

I find all the comments interesting, but have not added to my store of
real, firm knowledge.

bill w

On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 1:54 AM SR Ballard via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> By “the natural order of thing”, I mean, not conducive to creating
> responsible, “self-sufficent” adults.
> For example, before we started dating, my boyfriend was constantly
> borrowing and repaying the same $10 with his Grandma. I absolutely find
> that unacceptable and childish and just don’t tolerate it from him. He now
> has a savings account, for the first time in his life. Young people just do
> NOT save. Because there are so many factors that enable them to not save:
> loans, credit cards, social gratification.
> They (my boyfriend and his brother) used to pay rent on the 3rd so his
> brother could get one more check. No. You make enough money, pay it on the
> first like you’re supposed to!
> It’s not a thing that’s “wrong” with young people. But it’s going to
> become a severe obstacle when their parents eventually pass away.
> And I’m not talking about money specifically, but rather the mindset that
> money represents. For example people who move out and can’t boil pasta, do
> their own laundry, make a grocery list, deposit a check.
> Eventually the people who do that for “you” now are going to be gone. Of
> course you can google it or watch a YouTube video, but it’s absolutely not
> the same as far as poise goes.
> SR Ballard
> On Jul 31, 2020, at 5:46 PM, Dan TheBookMan via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
> On Jul 31, 2020, at 2:49 PM, SR Ballard via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
> To clarify I do blame extended adolescence on “society” because it
> requires a legal and social framework and constant enabling. It is not the
> natural order of things.
> SR Ballard
> What is the ‘natural order of things’? The way I view it is there’s always
> this attitude that something is wrong with the young.
> Forgive the expression, but don’t fall prey to the Boomer mindset. (It’s
> strange because I’m sure when Boomers were young, they were doing stuff
> their elders thought would end civilization if not the species. You know,
> stuff like having premarital sex and smoking pot.;)
> Regards,
> Dan
>    Sample my Kindle books at:
> http://author.to/DanUst
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