[ExI] atheists/religion

[Will Steinberg]

I didn't say anything about god though.  Theism implies belief in a god--I
am just talking about a philosophical/theological viewpoint, not a
religion.  Religions have bells and whistles, unlike science, which
discards anything that is not the truth.  I happen to believe that it is
true that a god type entity exists, so I think science and theism will
approach and are approaching one another.

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 3:54 PM Dylan Distasio via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> I think you're stretching the generally agreed upon definition of theism
> if you don't include god/gods in the definition.
>
> On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 3:49 PM Will Steinberg via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>> I'm not talking about religion.  I didn't mention religion.  I mentioned
>> a philosophical viewpoint, theism, which will grow in accord with science
>> as we discover more about our reality.  All the saints and miracles and
>> fake heavens and hells can shove it for all I care.  Science is germane to
>> theism, as science reveals the truth.
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 2:25 PM William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>
>>> At some point, in my opinion, atheism will be seen, by scientists and
>>> the academic community, as a ridiculous and antiquated viewpoint.  will
>>>
>>> Not unless they change the epistemology of science.   A far better bet
>>> is when the geneticists manage to eliminate superstitious behavior and
>>> false correlation, religion as we know it will entirely disappear.  bill w
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 1:14 PM Will Steinberg via extropy-chat <
>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I understand what Giulio means.  I think there is a strain in modern A
>>>> for Atheism that sort of acts like we have the whole universe figured out.
>>>> This lack of mystery or wonder then leads to ennui.
>>>>
>>>> Theism and agnosticism are approaching one another, especially with the
>>>> singularity and simulation arguments, and as we learn more about unknown
>>>> aspects of the universe.  At some point, in my opinion, atheism will be
>>>> seen, by scientists and the academic community, as a ridiculous and
>>>> antiquated viewpoint.
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 12:48 PM William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <
>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Consoled?  They want advice of the most serious kind.  That is what we
>>>>> have been discussing:  just what principles do we have that supplant the
>>>>> ones we originally got (most of us) from religion.  What are you going to
>>>>> say to them?  The secular humanists are a good start as are the extropians
>>>>> Spike mentioned.  And you can go a long way with the Golden Rule (no,
>>>>> people, don't tell me the exceptions we all know about).  Also, I see in
>>>>> the news a movement trying to get a monument to the Bill of Rights on the
>>>>> Mall in D.C.  Support that if you can.  Bill of R is a good start for
>>>>> principles,mostly of the rationalist kind.   I also think the UN has
>>>>> something like a bill of rights.  bill w
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 11:13 AM SR Ballard via extropy-chat <
>>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> When my grandpa dies, considering my uncle died last week, and
>>>>>> someone tells me, “I feel so sorry for you.” I wouldn’t see that as
>>>>>> patronizing. In the beforetimes it would probably be accompanied by a hug,
>>>>>> which I don’t normally care for.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Context makes it patronizing or not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If someone comes to you and says something like, “I’m an athiest and
>>>>>> very happy with my life”, then of course it is patronizing. But at the same
>>>>>> time if someone says something like, “I don’t believe in God anymore, how
>>>>>> am I going to live my life?” Well, that’s different and they probably want
>>>>>> to be consoled.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> SR Ballard
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Aug 3, 2020, at 6:48 AM, John Clark via extropy-chat <
>>>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 7:19 AM Dave Sill via extropy-chat <
>>>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> *I didn’t say anything negative about atheists. I said that I
>>>>>>>> think they are sad, and therefore I feel sorry for them.*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >That's patronizing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regardless of the subject it's ALWAYS patronizing when somebody says
>>>>>> "I feel so sorry for you", it's hypocritical too because hearing such a
>>>>>> statement never makes anybody feel better, and it isn't said to express
>>>>>> compassion it's said to express contempt.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  John K Clark
>>>>>>
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