[ExI] Mental Phenomena

Will Steinberg steinberg.will at gmail.com
Fri Feb 14 01:25:41 UTC 2020

Redness is not a quality of any *thing*!  It's a dance between an observer
and an observed.

I also think it has to be said that the PURE red quale is not experienced
in life.  It can be imagined in the mind's eye, but in life, it always
comes with context.  I think it is very silly to make thought experiments
that remove that context, because they are unrealistic and prove nothing.

On Thu, Feb 13, 2020, 20:08 Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> Hi stathis,
> On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 4:57 PM Stathis Papaioannou via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>> How are you going to upload redness without glutamate inside the computer?
> Ah, the real reason stathis and everyone is so loath to give up their
> cherished beliefs about quaila being substrate independent.
> The fact of the matter is, redness is something.  We don't know yet, what,
> but it is still a quality of something.
> So this basically proves that a machine that is intentionally designed to
> be independent of such things (via lots of dictionaries.) aren't going to
> have any redness.
> But, this doesn't mean simulations, even phenomenal simulations, aren't
> going to be possible.
> If we don't want to worry about things like turning humans off, when we
> restart our simulations, and other such immoral stuff, we just do
> everything in an amoral abstract way, that isn't physically like anything.
> If we want a phenomenal simulation, we need to make simulated knowledge
> out of basement level physical knowledge, like our brain does, when it
> simulates reality.  Anything we want, including going though walls, is
> possible in these kinds of simulated worlds of knowledge.
> Brent
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