[ExI] Muslim and Supermuslim: Toward Islamic transhumanism?

Giulio Prisco giulio at gmail.com
Wed Feb 26 19:24:19 UTC 2020

Using your analogy, a fundamentalist atheist is one who doesn’t play chess
AND doesn’t tolerate that others do. As a chess player, I have no issue
with those who don’t play, but I have many issues with those who try to
stop me from playing. Live and let live.

On 2020. Feb 26., Wed at 19:07, Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> On 26/02/2020 13:40, Giuilio wrote:
> Muslim and Supermuslim: Toward Islamic transhumanism?
> In a new book, philosopher of religion Roy Jackson
> <https://www.glos.ac.uk/academic-schools/education-and-humanities/staff-profiles/pages/s2108104-roy-jackson.aspx>
> envisions a Muslim Transhumanist Association...
> https://turingchurch.net/muslim-and-supermuslim-toward-islamic-transhumanism-e2583dbdd759
> "Jackson explains that the common black-and-white caricatures of
> fundamentalist theocratic Muslims on the one hand, and fundamentalist
> atheist transhumanists on the other hand, are not representative"
> Er, what?
> I know what a fundamentalist Muslim is ("theocratic" is redundant here),
> but what the hell is a 'fundamentalist atheist'?? Either all atheists are
> 'fundamentalist', or none are, depending on how you define the word
> 'fundamentalist'. In either case, the word serves no purpose.
> Atheism isn't something you can have 'mild' and 'extreme' versions of,
> which is what the above language implies. You either lack a belief in gods
> or you don't. Anything else is a variety of religious belief, which can be
> weak or strong (fundamentalist).
> Believing that there are no gods is not atheism, it's a belief
> (obviously). I know that various religious apologists misrepresent atheism
> as a negative belief, but they don't get to define what it means, and
> anyone with half a brain can see straight through propaganda like that.
> Imagine someone saying, in response to hearing that another person doesn't
> play chess, "yeah, well I don't play chess EVEN MORE!!". Apart from the
> obvious silliness, it wouldn't qualify them as a 'fundamentalist
> non-chess-player', would it?
> There are no negative numbers with belief, either your belief is >0 or
> it's 0.
> I'm no expert on Islam (I did try reading the manual once, but it was so
> repellent that I couldn't stomach it), but my understanding is that the
> word means 'submission' (I know that it's common to talk about the nuances
> of translation causing a lot of confusion between english and arabic, but
> I've never heard the word 'Islam' translated as anything else. Anyone who
> knows different, please speak up). Submission as in submission to divine
> will (as interpreted by the clergy, of course).
> I know a bit more about transhumanism, and one of its core tenets is
> self-determination. I have a hard time reconciling those two concepts, and
> suspect that any attempt to do that would necessarily change the meaning of
> either 'submission' or 'self-determination'. I can't see any kind of
> transhumanism ditching the concept of self-determination, but am not so
> sure if Islam can possibly ditch the concept of submission to divine will
> (and if so, it would be a bit like a vegetarian starting to eat meat, but
> still insist on being called a vegetarian).
> I'd be interested to hear of any solution to this conundrum.
> --
> Ben Zaiboc
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
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