[ExI] Mental Phenomena

William Flynn Wallace foozler83 at gmail.com
Sat Jan 18 21:24:22 UTC 2020

What makes anyone think that a machine can experience anything?  Do we know
that?  I don't think so.  If you claim that we do, just how are you
measuring that?  Sounds like scifi to me. If enough humans say that they
are experiencing a vision of a strawberry, I'd take their word for it.  I
would assume not all would lie.  I assume nothing about a machine except
that it is not a living thing and cannot be.   bill w

bill w

On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 2:49 PM John Clark via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 9:55 AM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>  > *it's possible that we could identify a specific pattern in the
>> large-scale networks, and show that it's necessary and sufficient to
>> produce the sensation of the colour 'strawberry'.*
> I don't think that's possible at all, in fact I'd say it's a logical
> impossibility. You might be able to show that a specific network pattern in
> a human biological brain was *sufficient* to cause a mouth to make a
> noise like "*I am experiencing the visual qualia I experience when I look
> at a strawberry*", or cause a electronic computer to print out the
> corresponding ASCII sequence when it is in the corresponding network state.
> But how in the world could you ever prove the man and the AI were
> experiencing the same visual qualia, or even prove either of them were
> experiencing a qualia at all? And even if you could somehow magically do
> that how could you prove it was *necessary*, how could you prove that
> some other network state or even something that had nothing to do with
> networks couldn't produce the same thing? There are after all an infinite
> number of things that have nothing to do with networks just as there are a
> infinite number of things that do, so you can't try them all.
> People are spending way too much time worrying about Artificial
> Consciousness, I say just concentrate on Artificial Intelligence, once you
> have that you'll get consciousness for free; it is after all the tactic
> that Evolution used and it produced you and me and I am a conscious being,
> you probably are too although I can't prove it.
> John K Clark
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