[ExI] Mental Phenomena
ben at zaiboc.net
Thu Jan 30 09:53:44 UTC 2020
Brent Allsop wrote:
> Hi Ben,
> Thanks for your extra work in our efforts to communicate. We are
> obviously failing miserably.
Well, I would suggest that your model example using glutamate, combined
with your terminology ('elemental') could almost be designed to mislead
people about what you actually mean, so it's no wonder there's
My 'availability' argument was a response to what you seemed to be
claiming (and you agreed to what I asked about it. That question wasn't
aimed at a simplified imaginary world, it was about the real world), and
it doesn't just falsify the idea that glutamate = redness, but falsifies
the whole concept of any molecule representing any quale, but perhaps
you accept that, and perhaps it is missing the point anyway, which just
reinforces what I'm saying here.
I still don't understand what you mean by 'qualia blindness', and your
simple-world examples do nothing towards helping me (or anyone else,
that I can see) to understand it.
As the saying goes "If you do what you always did, you'll get what you
always got". Perhaps it's time to try a different tack? The more
different ways you can explain something, the better chance there is of
people understanding it. When I have difficulty understanding a thing, I
try to find a variety of sources with different ways of explaining it,
then there's a better chance of finding something that makes sense to
me. Any idea worth its salt can be explained in a number of different
ways, or looked at from different angles. Unfortunately, you seem to be
the only source of this idea, whatever it is, so it's up to you to come
up with the different ways of explaining it that might help people to
I suggest you add more ways of looking at this to your vocabulary, make
new models, using different viewpoints, to try to convey what 'qualia
blindness' is. Without this, I for one, wiil certainly continue to have
no clue what it can mean. The only thing the term suggests to me is a
lack of ability to experience qualia, just as ordinary blindness is a
lack of ability to see. You clearly don't mean that, as it's an absurd
thing to say.
I know that you've probably invested a lot of time and thought in coming
up with your model and terminology, and presumably it makes perfect
sense to you, but if I'm any indication, it doesn't necessarily make
sense to many other people. Time to think of other ways to explain it
(and I don't just mean 'yellowness' instead of 'redness', and serotonin
instead of glutamate!!). Preferably several different ways, if you want
people to latch on to what you mean.
I don't know, but perhaps drop the 'simplified world' and try using the
real world? Or create a less simplified imaginary world? Or better
still, translate into a completely different system that has nothing to
do with brains, colours and neurotransmitters, but embodies the same
concept? (I remember, long long ago, having difficulty understanding
multiplication, it was all very abstract and mysterious, until someone
drew a 2 x 3 grid on a piece of paper in front of me, and said "There,
*that's* what multiiplication is!". I was all OOOOHHH!!! Suddenly it
made complete sense. It just hadn't been explained to me like that
before (for some daft reason)).
By the way, if anyone can come up with a similar way of explaining what
complex numbers are, I'd be very grateful! I know the usual description,
but that just doesn't make any sense to me.
(Yes, I know, it's extremely unlikely).
And you're /still/ CCing my private email address, despite repeated
requests that you don't. That doesn't improve my mood (I won't repeat
what escapes my lips every time I see this. Use your imagination).
Please stop it, permanently.
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