[ExI] Who has a vote that counts?

William Flynn Wallace foozler83 at gmail.com
Fri Jul 31 20:58:04 UTC 2020

> You hope this attitude doesn’t spread? That must be a very large rock
> friend.
> I a missing the metaphor here.  Living under a rock, maybe?
> 100% of under 30s I have met both online and IRL agree with the sentiment
> that it’s all ultimately pointless and horrible. Some do a better job
> ignoring it day-to-day compared to others.
Do any of these people have a good job?  Happily married?  College
education?  These people do exist, you know.  I have to doubt that if they
have these things they are as depressed as the ones who may be stuck to
their computers (which a lot of people need to get away from, I think.
Maybe you just don't know many of these people.)

> Even before the pandemic, under 30s have experienced profound isolation,
> extended adolescence, a plethora of parasocial relationships and a dearth
> of real ones, overwhelming screentime, lack of personal relationships.
How can you blame these things on society?  Especially extended adolescence
- that is all up the person.  It reads like a bunch of lazy sluggards to
me, who won't help themselves and are still living at home.  Good friends
are something you have to seek and friendship you have to work at.

> Decline of religiousity means decreased social networks and lack of
> meaning in life, lack of opportunities to both give and receive altruism.
It sounds as if those people need a crutch.  Society is not forcing anyone
to be less religious.  If they can't find a meaning in life, maybe they
could work at being a better person.  That's enough meaning for most of
us.  I also have to doubt that people cannot find ways to help the needy of
all flavors.  There are plenty of charitable organizations where you can
volunteer.  Some specious logic here.

> Constant movement both within cities and across nations prevents a sense
> of community.
> Again, you can't blame this on society.
> Decline of cultural monoliths means lack of shared popular culture. Job
> opportunities are poor, housing is expensive, and university debt is
> suffocating.
I am not sure what a cultural monolith is.  It seems to me that there are
so many cultures out there, esp. in pop music, that if you can't find a
niche you are just too picky.  I fully agree about jobs, which have been
underpaid for many years (while the rich get richer).  And college debt is
a national disgrace.

> Regardless of the material facts of the situation, poor opportunities and
> lack of community coupled with a lack of leadership create a trifecta of
> human emotional misery.
Just who is supposed to provide leadership for your personal life?
Politicians?  Rock stars?  TV gurus? What happened to family and friends?
bill w

> The WWs in the US did not suffer from those. The Depression was a somewhat
> mixed bag in that regard.
> People can be happy regardless of their material poverty as long as they
> have a strong sense of community and goals. Even if that goal is just
> “don’t let my family starve”.
> SR Ballard
> On Jul 31, 2020, at 9:53 AM, William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
> We younger people have very little hope for the future.   will
> Have you heard of the self-fulfilling prophecy?  Of course you have. My
> parents lived through two WWs and a deep Depression.  I never heard them
> say that any of that ruined their lives.  You just did what you had to do
> and moved on.  We were lower middle class.  Didn't have a lot but bought
> new cars and always had food on the table.  And so on.
> I hope your attitude doesn't spread.  Last thing we need is a national
> emotional depression.  Of course most of us will grieve if the election
> doesn't go our way, but honestly, we have lived through the last four years
> and could live through four more years - not happy, but surviving and
> trying to make our personal lives mean something.  That's all we really can
> control:  our own lives.  Don't give up on them.
> bill w
> On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:45 AM Will Steinberg via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>> Apathy, disgust with two party system, hopelessness.
>> It may be harder to understand for older people.
>> We younger people have very little hope for the future.  While you guys
>> were excited for the future as kids, young adults, and beyond, we have no
>> hope.  Geopolitical instability is increasing, there are pandemics, climate
>> change, and increasingly polarized and violent populations in many
>> countries.  We are so salty at this that at times we literally no longer
>> care what happens, and would rather 'watch the world burn' out of spite and
>> the fact that said burning seems inevitable at this point.  The world is
>> more fucked up than it was last time there was severe global shake-up
>> (WWII) but now there are far more nukes and nuclear countries, worse
>> weather, far worse wealth inequality, more densely clustered living areas
>> leading to unrest and disease.
>> So the basic idea is 'it's already fucked, may as well make my
>> disappointment clear.'
>> For older people, Trump getting elected or not may determine whether the
>> entire rest of your life is calm or is full of strife.  For us, strife is
>> pretty much guaranteed at some point.  In fact, will hastening it in some
>> way get us out the other side more quickly?  A kind of 'just get it over
>> with already' perspective.
>> So--if the thing to avoid is horrible strife at some point in one's life,
>> we don't see the election of Trump as really having a bearing on that.  It
>> will come sooner or later.  Even if Biden is elected, it seems easy to
>> believe that the world will still get worse even during his tenure,
>> surveillance and wealth gap will increase, more pandemics, more natural
>> disasters, more war.
>> John--that's why.  Because when you have 80 more years to live, it can
>> seem like it doesn't matter either way.
>> Maybe Trump losing will initiate a renaissance of compassion,
>> technological improvement for the better of humankind, knowledge-gathering,
>> and wealth redistribution.  But more likely than not it will just be a
>> brief positive bump, if even that.  Or just a not-as-bad negative.
>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 6:19 AM John Clark via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 12:19 AM Will Steinberg via extropy-chat <
>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>> *> I live in PA, so my vote definitely counts a lot. I actually agree
>>>> with John not only that voting in safe states will likely matter in what
>>>> happens, but also that voting for Biden specifically will be more important
>>>> than just voting against Trump, because Biden will be helped by tallies the
>>>> same way Trump is hurt by them.*
>>> Good.
>>> *> That being said, I still haven't convinced myself to vote for Biden
>>>> instead of just not voting this year like I have been planning on.  Idk*
>>> I've tried, I've really tried, but I just don't understand that attitude.
>>> What on Earth is the downside to voting against a fascist who has put the
>>> constitution in mortal danger?!
>>>  John K Clark
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