[ExI] Evolution - 'Nature versus Nurture', but random noise as well

William Flynn Wallace foozler83 at gmail.com
Tue Mar 24 16:05:23 UTC 2020

Well, thanks for trying, but that doesn't help at all.  In fact, it makes
it worse.  Someone asks me if nature or nurture mostly affects height and I
say "Well, given an equal environment for all the subjects in the study,
which is impossible, their genes will largely determine the adult height,
although the terms Nature and Nurture are all wrong as is my answer."
 What are people supposed to do with that?

bill w

On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 8:15 AM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> On 23/03/2020 21:20, billw wrote:
> > Well Ben, what can we do?  If I say that my height is mostly genetic
> > am I wrong?  If I say that learning my name is mostly nurture, an I
> > wrong?  How could I express myself without giving a lecture?  bill w
> I don't know. I don't know how to express it in a concise and easy way.
> "is my height mostly genetic?" is not, imo, a valid question, though. It
> seems to mean a lot more than it actually does. The same with learning
> being 'mostly nurture'.
> 'Nurture' isn't the right word to use in the first place, and neither is
> 'nature'. We're talking about the interaction between genomes and a
> dynamic environment, with many factors involved in both. I have no idea
> how to conceptually condense and simplify a process that changes the sex
> of crocodiles depending on the temperature of their eggs, for example. I
> do know that characterising it in terms of 'nature vs. nature' is not
> helpful.
> Maybe, as with many things, we need a new vocabulary. I don't know what
> it is. I just know that the old one is unhelpful, to say the least.
> Maybe a lecture is a necessary part of the process. Who just made the
> jump from Ptolemaic to Copernican cosmology without a few lectures being
> involved? Very few, I suspect.
> --
> Ben Zaiboc
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