[ExI] Essential Upload Data (was: Subject: Boltzmann brains)

Re Rose rocket at earthlight.com
Tue May 5 12:03:43 UTC 2020

Agreed, it's easier to get faster cooling rates (although that's not always
better, depending on the physical properties of the tissue and the ability
to homogeneously cool without causing stress fractiures...) with smaller
masses, such as brain vs. whole body. So in that sense a brain alone is
more likely to be cooled and preserved intact, than a whole body.

But I believe the whole body is necessary for a
re-animation experience that will recover the essential "you". I realize
this is a highly controversial topic.

I saw other posts here saying inclusion of hormonal organs that communicate
with the brain would be sufficient as that information could also be
preserved and uploaded in future technoligoes. So, for example, torso
preservations were proposed.

I don't think this will solve the essential problem. I think any upload is
problematic. I believe there are two problems that will be really hard to
solve: first, preserving the cyclic, dynamical environment of non-neural
information available in the body such as hormonal cycles or feedback from
non-neural neurotransmitters (such as from your gut) is difficult, with no
solution on the horizon. Second, your cortex is specifically wired to
accomodate your body, with all its quirks, balances, habits, accomodations,
skillz, and tics. Every human body is different and each body's cortex
learns the characteristics of that body. While we know the cortex is nearly
infinitely able to accomodate and learn, learning an entirely new corporeal
system may not only overwhelm it, but the being that emerges after this
process is highly likely to not be "you".

I'm a participant in cryonics research because I want to be reanimated as
myself. I'm not so interested in contributing a brain pattern that took me
my whole life to create (and that I like very much!!) so be uploaded to
some other agent who can use it to wire-up a version based on me that is so
foreign that I'm not really there.



PS - what would be *really* nice is to save an uploaded copy of the brain
along with the crypreserved body so that any damage to the information in
the brain due to the cryopreservation process can be repaired using the
upload as a backup. You would have your original body, complete with all
its information, plus a brain backup for repair of any neuronal information
loss. Yay! Sign me up, please  -R


Message: 1
Date: Tue, 5 May 2020 02:18:53 -0400
From: Rafal Smigrodzki <rafal.smigrodzki at gmail.com>
To: ExI chat list <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
Subject: Re: [ExI] Essential Upload Data (was: Subject: Boltzmann
        <CAAc1gFgO2ZTisNNVGaLm4y5LA_jJOvCfNvU3qYuXK0SmUL067g at mail.gmail.com>
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On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 5:22 PM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> On 03/05/2020 19:42, Re Rose wrote:
> IMHO, I think whole-body cryopreservation is far better than
> neuropreservation as I believe the body is a system and you need all of
> Thus, I have issues with uploading
> The one doesn't follow from the other, even if it is true (which I don't
> think, but that's a separate argument).

### It's also worth mentioning that neuropreservation allows for a much
faster cooling rate that leads to vitrification of the tissue and prevents
ice crystal formation and subsequent damage. Therefore, as far as we can
tell, the brains so preserved are much less likely to be damaged than
brains preserved with the body attached.

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