[ExI] communism/authoritarianism

[John Grigg]

How can anyone want a hereditary monarchy, if they are at all acquainted
with world history? Lol Over the long-term, it is the road to civil war,
horrible rulers and chaos... Michael Anissimov hurt his reputation with
such ideas.

I would like to give AGI a shot at ruling society, or at least co-ruling.
But then they may get ideas about crime & punishment, and how to curb
over-population, that chill our blood.

I worry about how the rioting has not gone away, but may instead be a
permanent part of the new normal. We have seen millions of dollars damage
done from vandalism & looting, and many people hurt. But at the same time,
l am skeptical about cities truly reforming their police forces, once the
pressure to do so goes away.

People/groups seem to demonize each other, rather than being able to
communicate with those of differing views. This is not a good thing. A
classic belief is that when this happens, those at the very top are
pleased, because their game is divide and conquer.



On Fri, Sep 18, 2020, 4:37 PM Dan TheBookMan via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 7:51 PM Darin Sunley via extropy-chat
> <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
> > At this point, I'm becoming more and more sympathetic to the idea of a
> strong constitutional hereditary monarch, with a behavioral norm of
> decisively and publicly crushing ursurpers.
> >
> > In a dysfunctional, divided democracy like the US appears to be
> currently enjoying, we have a permanent ongoing cold civil war [with
> occasional flashes of heat] as both major tribes unceasingly maneuver in
> the plausible hope of attaining power for a few years at a time, until the
> wheel turns again. This is /far/ more damaging to the lives of normal
> people than one side simply decisively owning the government would be.
> >
> > I don't even really care if a future American king would be a member of
> my political tribe at this point. A decent king can rule reasonably justly
> over badly divided factions [see the Ottoman Empire for one good example,
> not to mention the Romans], as long as the factions are effectively and
> permanently disabused of the hope of eventually crushing their tribal
> enemies. A hereditary king of a particular tribe is incentivized to refrain
> from crushing the other tribes under his rule, in a way that a president or
> senate majority leader is not.
> I'm not sure the Roman or Ottoman empires are good examples of what
> you want. For instance, Rome had many many bad emperors -- even
> allowing that an autocrat is already a bad idea. It even had
> disastrous internal wars during the empire, including one period where
> the empire simply broke up into three parts for about a dozen years.
>
> The Ottoman empire relied on expansion and started to stagnate once it
> stopped expanding. Yeah, it was a long decline, but I don't think it's
> the kind of polity anyone here would want to live under. (Ditto for
> the Roman Empire.)
>
> A problem with all monarchical systems is, of course, succession. You
> might get a somewhat good ruler, by your lights, but that doesn't mean
> the successor won't be as good. And Anton's citing Popper earlier
> applies: your setup relies on a good and competent person being at the
> top, but it's nearly impossible to ensure a bad person (or faction)
> won't be on top.
>
> I also think, despite being no fan of the current US system, the
> crisis is overstated. Yeah, presidential power has grown enormously
> over both the long term and in the last two decades. And factionalism
> seems extreme now. But looking at history, is it really like 1968 or
> the 1930s? It seems like today the differences are overstated.
>
> And, if anything, I think the solution lies in the other direction:
> diminishing if not abolishing the power of the state. I know that's a
> tough sell, and I don't pretend to be the kind of person who can
> persuade others.
>
> Regards,
>
> Dan
>   Sample my Kindle books via:
> http://www.amazon.com/Dan-Ust/e/B00J6HPX8M/
>
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