[ExI] 'Magic mushroom' compound may work just as well as antidepressants, small study finds

Fri Apr 23 14:08:38 UTC 2021

Nearly everyone underestimates the power of the placebo effect.  Or even
think it's not real - as if mental was not real.   bill w

On Thu, Apr 22, 2021 at 11:31 PM John Grigg via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> These Psychedelic Drugs Show Promise for Treating Mental Health Disorders
>
>
> https://www.livescience.com/63310-psychedelic-drugs-mental-health-disorders.html
>
> LSD alters consciousness by breaking down barriers in the brain
>
> https://www.livescience.com/lsd-breaks-down-barriers-brain.html
>
> Microdosing with 'shrooms or LSD no better than placebo, study finds
>
> https://www.livescience.com/microdosing-lsd-placebo-effect.html
>
> I admit to being very surprised about the third article on how microdosing
> was shown to be no better than a placebo. I have read a number of articles
> by people who swore by it, saying that it greatly increased their sense of
> well-being and ability to focus for long periods. And of course it is now
> the hip new trend in Silicon Valley, to enhance work performance.
>
> ..I wish all of these drugs would be legalized, and then utilized in
> intelligent ways to enhance the lives of people. And especially to help
> those who suffer from depression, anxiety and other mood disorders.
>
> There is now a Ketamine clinic in Arizona, but health insurance does not
> cover treatment, which means the initial three month therapy costs four
> thousand dollars out of pocket!
>
> John
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 18, 2021 at 11:52 AM John Grigg <possiblepaths2050 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Nuala Thomson, I look forward to hearing further what you have to say...
>> I find these subjects deeply fascinating....
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 18, 2021 at 10:40 AM Nuala Thomson via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm so sorry Bill W!
>>> That is a huge question and hard to answer.
>>> No matter what, every single person reacts differently and experiences
>>> differently to both pharmaceuticals and illegal drugs. So the latest in DNA
>>> testing to narrow down which antidepressants are more likely to help rather
>>> than hinder I think is a very much needed first step.
>>>
>>> https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/gene-testing-to-guide-antidepressant-treatment-has-its-time-arrived-2019100917964
>>> The next stage is going to be able to confirm whether it's a person's
>>> state of mind/way of thinking or an actual chemical imbalance and therefore
>>> whether a form of therapy (CBT, DBT, etc.) Would be better suited to them
>>> over antidepressants, stabilisers, or antipsychotics. The struggle to
>>> differentiate on the more suitable path is real, and quite often here
>>> (Australia) doctors opt for both (therapy and drugs) simultaneously. This
>>> is both good and bad.
>>> I'm going to go back to gene testing for antidepressants for a moment
>>> and I'm going to use 'Subject J' as an example. He had been on and off
>>> antidepressants for the better part of 20 years trying to find one that
>>> actually worked with acceptable side effects. I can't say what the last one
>>> he took was but I can say that it was 'the one'. His neuro chemistry is
>>> permanently changed and he no longer needs to take medication. This is what
>>> I hope the dna tests will help to accomplish in a more acceptable time
>>> frame.
>>> I could talk a lot more on the use of therapy treating borderline and
>>> bipolar disorders which stem from trauma but I want to touch on illicit
>>> substances.
>>> Again, everyone reacts differently so one person might respond to MDMA
>>> as I would expect (loving, friendly, talkative, open communication) another
>>> person will respond entirely differently. An example that I saw was
>>> nauseous, tired, completely closed off. That person ended up just going to
>>> sleep. Opposite responses will happen with everything.
>>> Illicit drugs and mental illness is also a mega topic for me and typing
>>> this email on a phone screen is getting frustrating.
>>> Illicit substances in the use for dealing with mental illness is not as
>>> funded as I would like it to be, and obviously this email started with
>>> evidence that it should have more funding. MDMA in couples or marriage
>>> sessions can be great as it is the love drug. People are able to openly
>>> communicate coming from a place of love instead of a place of spite or
>>> maliciousness. Hallucinogenics I'm assuming everyone knows how they work
>>> whether or not you've actually tried any. I believe for a more permanent
>>> response in the treatment of mental illness the trip should be guided. I'm
>>> going to refer to my own experiences for this one. My first time ever
>>> specifically. I was 18 and dating a pretty amazing person. I also have a
>>> history of mental illness myself. Keeping this simple and vague; Somewhere
>>> in the journey, in the span of about 30min I cycled through every possible
>>> emotion processing childhood abuse. The person I was with just allowed and
>>> accepted everything and listened.
>>> Now for sure there is still some processing to do but not like that.
>>> That was about 75% of the process complete in one go. If I had been alone
>>> in that, it would not have gone like that. Long term, the benefits still
>>> blow my mind.
>>> It's that benefit that I hope will eventually be more accepted. Micro
>>> dosing is certainly a lot safer and more easily controlled.
>>> A major problem I see with mental illness and illicit drugs is the
>>> habitual use as a way of masking pain and trauma. The excessive use stops
>>> the healing process and causes more long term issues. I've found the people
>>> in this situation are a lot less likely to seek professional help, are
>>> reluctant to let someone help them, and will just continue until something
>>> changes, but denial runs strong in that group.
>>> And then we have the group of people (such as myself) who have
>>> pre-existing mental illness, who micro dosing would be extremely beneficial
>>> for, but where the risk of adverse effects is strong.
>>> E.g.. Paranoid after effects.
>>>
>>> I'm sorry. I would love to continue but I'm truly sick of typing on a
>>> phone. I would love your opinion and experiences on such topics and we can
>>> continue the conversation later.
>>>
>>> On Sun., Apr. 18, 2021, 09:17 William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat, <
>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Apr 16, 2021 at 8:16 PM Nuala Thomson via extropy-chat <
>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Will, do you mean pharmaceuticals in terms of the treatment of mental
>>>>> illness or something else?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's Bill W - anything at all that you know - mental illness -
>>>> self-treatment for mental problems, etc.  Just the illegal drugs.   bill w
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat., Apr. 17, 2021, 10:40 William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat, <
>>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Nuala, what do you think of the efficacy of the drugs as far as you
>>>>>> are concerned?   bill w
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 16, 2021 at 7:30 PM Nuala Thomson via extropy-chat <
>>>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here in Aus medical marijuana still has THC and gets you fucked up!
>>>>>>> The strongest weed you could possibly get.
>>>>>>> On the other hand CBD oil which is also being shown to help with
>>>>>>> anxiety and depression does not contain THC.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat., Apr. 17, 2021, 04:00 William Flynn Wallace via
>>>>>>> extropy-chat, <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes, but medical marijuana has the THC taken out of it - no highs.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is false  It depends:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/consumer-health/in-depth/medical-marijuana/art-20137855#:~:text=Medical%20marijuana%20%E2%80%94%20also%20called%20medical,)%20and%20CBD%20(cannabidiol
>>>>>>>> ).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 16, 2021 at 11:37 AM Will Steinberg via extropy-chat <
>>>>>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 16, 2021, 12:09 PM William Flynn Wallace via
>>>>>>>>> extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yes, but medical marijuana has the THC taken out of it - no
>>>>>>>>>> highs.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is false
>>>>>>>>>
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