[ExI] US ?failed miserably? in wargame reportedly against China attack on Taiwan

Mon Aug 9 18:08:24 UTC 2021

Yeah, the question is:  is Taiwan and our obligations worth getting
attacked on our mainland?  I vote NO!  bill w

On Mon, Aug 9, 2021 at 12:17 PM Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> And in the time it takes them to do it, the US's nuclear strike capability
> can be wrecked.
>
> That aside, launching a counterstrike against China or Russia just means
> more devastation visited upon the US in response.  Other actors might
> plausibly be believed to not be able to strike back against a counterstrike.
>
> On Mon, Aug 9, 2021 at 1:38 AM John Grigg via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>> The intelligence agencies would have to uncover a definite smoking gun
>> before revenge was sought.
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 9, 2021 at 1:02 AM Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Still enough to potentially cause US nukes not to fly back in
>>> retaliation, for fear of hitting an innocent country.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 9, 2021 at 12:01 AM John Grigg via extropy-chat <
>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The only hostile nations with the ability to attack America that way
>>>> are Russia, China, Iran (sooner rather than later) and North Korea. A very
>>>> short list...
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Aug 8, 2021 at 11:47 PM Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat <
>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> No, it'd be obvious it wasn't terrorists.  This is way beyond what
>>>>> terrorists can muster.  Only China has motivation and capability to nuke
>>>>> Taiwan...but China isn't the only one able and willing (if they think they
>>>>> can get away with it) to nuke the US.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Aug 8, 2021 at 11:32 PM John Grigg via extropy-chat <
>>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> And so the CCP does this "secretly" to Taiwan and then says to them,
>>>>>> "oh, my gosh!" "What a horrible act of terrorism some unknown villains did
>>>>>> to you!" "Well, due to our huge concern for you, we will immediately send
>>>>>> 250,000 members of our armed services with lots of equipment to help you
>>>>>> rebuild!" LOL
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 8, 2021 at 11:23 PM Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat <
>>>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Defeatist" might be elaborating on the possibility of nuclear
>>>>>>> torpedoes, launched deniably underwater, coming within a kilometer or so of
>>>>>>> the shore, popping up, and nuking whatever near-shore city there is.  Note
>>>>>>> that around half of America's biggest cities are near or on an oceanic
>>>>>>> coast.  As they only show up on sensors (sonar at first) well after being
>>>>>>> fired, there's no proof of who to retaliate against, removing the biggest
>>>>>>> practical obstacle to a major power using them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 8, 2021 at 10:26 PM John Grigg via extropy-chat <
>>>>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Oh, and don't forget about the Russian super-cavitation torpedoes!
>>>>>>>> Lol But what about drone swarms around warships, to keep them safe above
>>>>>>>> and below the water? And my understanding is that far more powerful lasers
>>>>>>>> will be deployed on our ships within the next few years. And there are the
>>>>>>>> vulcan guns to shoot a million big bullets at incoming missiles. But of
>>>>>>>> course their targeting systems have to be up to the task. And I would like
>>>>>>>> to think the military has some awesome above top secret weapons systems
>>>>>>>> that are in storage and ready to go, if war comes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Spike, I feel like you are being defeatist, but then you are an
>>>>>>>> experienced engineer so perhaps you have knowledge the rest of us don't. I
>>>>>>>> personally think you don't fully grok how if the CCP is appeased and gets
>>>>>>>> their way, that American hegemony will be seen by the world as coming to an
>>>>>>>> end and things will never be the same. Our allies will realize that when
>>>>>>>> push comes to shove, and then war, that we give in to China. Jinping will
>>>>>>>> play his hand by telling an American president who wants to oppose a CCP
>>>>>>>> invasion of Taiwan, that he is risking the destruction of the global
>>>>>>>> economy and even the world, should things escalate to the use of nuclear
>>>>>>>> weapons. America must not give in to a tyrant who thinks he can get away
>>>>>>>> with such behavior, despite the possible risks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 8, 2021 at 9:40 PM spike jones via extropy-chat <
>>>>>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: extropy-chat <extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org> On
>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of
>>>>>>>>> Stuart LaForge via extropy-chat
>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >...I feel that losing the Taiwan scenario in a war game is just
>>>>>>>>> the wake up
>>>>>>>>> call that the U.S. naval commanders needed to keep them from
>>>>>>>>> fighting the
>>>>>>>>> previous war. The fact that the U.S. lost the war game might mean
>>>>>>>>> they have
>>>>>>>>> not figured this out yet. But the fact that the outcome of the war
>>>>>>>>> game
>>>>>>>>> leaked may mean that they have....
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Stuart LaForge
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Stuart, torpedo technology has far outpaced anti-missile
>>>>>>>>> technology.
>>>>>>>>> Torpedoes fly above the water at speeds higher than shipborne
>>>>>>>>> lasers can
>>>>>>>>> defend.  Result: flattops (and all other surface ships) cannot be
>>>>>>>>> defended.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We have had Taiwan money flowing into the states for a long time
>>>>>>>>> now.  What
>>>>>>>>> I read in this leak is that the US is signaling to the money
>>>>>>>>> remaining in
>>>>>>>>> Taiwan to get out now: the USA will not defend because it cannot.
>>>>>>>>> But the
>>>>>>>>> USA will cheerfully accept rich people from Taiwan to come here to
>>>>>>>>> live in
>>>>>>>>> peace.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> spike
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> extropy-chat mailing list
>>>>>>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
>>>>>>>>> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>>>>>>>>>
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