[ExI] US ?failed miserably? in wargame reportedly against China attack on Taiwan

Mon Aug 9 17:14:56 UTC 2021

And in the time it takes them to do it, the US's nuclear strike capability
can be wrecked.

That aside, launching a counterstrike against China or Russia just means
more devastation visited upon the US in response.  Other actors might
plausibly be believed to not be able to strike back against a counterstrike.

On Mon, Aug 9, 2021 at 1:38 AM John Grigg via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> The intelligence agencies would have to uncover a definite smoking gun
> before revenge was sought.
>
> On Mon, Aug 9, 2021 at 1:02 AM Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>> Still enough to potentially cause US nukes not to fly back in
>> retaliation, for fear of hitting an innocent country.
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 9, 2021 at 12:01 AM John Grigg via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>
>>> The only hostile nations with the ability to attack America that way are
>>> Russia, China, Iran (sooner rather than later) and North Korea. A very
>>> short list...
>>>
>>> On Sun, Aug 8, 2021 at 11:47 PM Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat <
>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> No, it'd be obvious it wasn't terrorists.  This is way beyond what
>>>> terrorists can muster.  Only China has motivation and capability to nuke
>>>> Taiwan...but China isn't the only one able and willing (if they think they
>>>> can get away with it) to nuke the US.
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Aug 8, 2021 at 11:32 PM John Grigg via extropy-chat <
>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> And so the CCP does this "secretly" to Taiwan and then says to them,
>>>>> "oh, my gosh!" "What a horrible act of terrorism some unknown villains did
>>>>> to you!" "Well, due to our huge concern for you, we will immediately send
>>>>> 250,000 members of our armed services with lots of equipment to help you
>>>>> rebuild!" LOL
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Aug 8, 2021 at 11:23 PM Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat <
>>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Defeatist" might be elaborating on the possibility of nuclear
>>>>>> torpedoes, launched deniably underwater, coming within a kilometer or so of
>>>>>> the shore, popping up, and nuking whatever near-shore city there is.  Note
>>>>>> that around half of America's biggest cities are near or on an oceanic
>>>>>> coast.  As they only show up on sensors (sonar at first) well after being
>>>>>> fired, there's no proof of who to retaliate against, removing the biggest
>>>>>> practical obstacle to a major power using them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 8, 2021 at 10:26 PM John Grigg via extropy-chat <
>>>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oh, and don't forget about the Russian super-cavitation torpedoes!
>>>>>>> Lol But what about drone swarms around warships, to keep them safe above
>>>>>>> and below the water? And my understanding is that far more powerful lasers
>>>>>>> will be deployed on our ships within the next few years. And there are the
>>>>>>> vulcan guns to shoot a million big bullets at incoming missiles. But of
>>>>>>> course their targeting systems have to be up to the task. And I would like
>>>>>>> to think the military has some awesome above top secret weapons systems
>>>>>>> that are in storage and ready to go, if war comes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Spike, I feel like you are being defeatist, but then you are an
>>>>>>> experienced engineer so perhaps you have knowledge the rest of us don't. I
>>>>>>> personally think you don't fully grok how if the CCP is appeased and gets
>>>>>>> their way, that American hegemony will be seen by the world as coming to an
>>>>>>> end and things will never be the same. Our allies will realize that when
>>>>>>> push comes to shove, and then war, that we give in to China. Jinping will
>>>>>>> play his hand by telling an American president who wants to oppose a CCP
>>>>>>> invasion of Taiwan, that he is risking the destruction of the global
>>>>>>> economy and even the world, should things escalate to the use of nuclear
>>>>>>> weapons. America must not give in to a tyrant who thinks he can get away
>>>>>>> with such behavior, despite the possible risks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 8, 2021 at 9:40 PM spike jones via extropy-chat <
>>>>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: extropy-chat <extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org> On
>>>>>>>> Behalf Of
>>>>>>>> Stuart LaForge via extropy-chat
>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >...I feel that losing the Taiwan scenario in a war game is just
>>>>>>>> the wake up
>>>>>>>> call that the U.S. naval commanders needed to keep them from
>>>>>>>> fighting the
>>>>>>>> previous war. The fact that the U.S. lost the war game might mean
>>>>>>>> they have
>>>>>>>> not figured this out yet. But the fact that the outcome of the war
>>>>>>>> game
>>>>>>>> leaked may mean that they have....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Stuart LaForge
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Stuart, torpedo technology has far outpaced anti-missile technology.
>>>>>>>> Torpedoes fly above the water at speeds higher than shipborne
>>>>>>>> lasers can
>>>>>>>> defend.  Result: flattops (and all other surface ships) cannot be
>>>>>>>> defended.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We have had Taiwan money flowing into the states for a long time
>>>>>>>> now.  What
>>>>>>>> I read in this leak is that the US is signaling to the money
>>>>>>>> remaining in
>>>>>>>> Taiwan to get out now: the USA will not defend because it cannot.
>>>>>>>> But the
>>>>>>>> USA will cheerfully accept rich people from Taiwan to come here to
>>>>>>>> live in
>>>>>>>> peace.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> spike
>>>>>>>>
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